I wonder what's up with my .22?

[Cowboy_Dan]

I have been been having a doosey of a time trying to get my old Sears .22 to shoot well. It used to be my grandpa's, so I do want to get it to do good groups. I took it out to the range today and it did 10 shots into 12", and the group was about a foot low. And this was at 50yds! Granted, it was offhand, but I shot my Mosin as well, and it did 1-1/8" at the same distance, so it likely was not the shooter.

I took it home, cleaned it out, and got to wondering if the barrel might be shot out. Did I mention it's older than me? So, I decided to slug the barrel. I mic'ed the slug, and this is what I got:



.2189" at the widest point and I can just barely make out the microgroove rifling (Marlin made the Sears guns). Also, I felt some tight/loose spots. I wonder if this could be the problem? If it is, is there a way to fix it?

[james nicholson]

22's are very ammunition sensitive. Try again with several different types. The bore size is acceptable to me and it is hard to see micro grove on even a new 22, at least with my old tired eyes. Also make sure the mounting screw {the one that holds the barrel to the stock} is snug.

[starmac]

I have to wonder how lead is in that old barrel

[451 Pete]

Dan, a couple of things. First check the crown of the muzzle of your barrel to make sure it is not damaged with any nicks. Gas escaping from a nick in a crown at the muzzle as your bullet exits the bore will cause accuracy troubles by tipping the bullet.

You mentioned finding loose and tight spots when slugging the bore. This could mean the barrel is wore out or maybe it has built up fouling and possibly leading in the bore over the years. Get a new bore brush and with a good solvent give that bore a really good scrubbing. Next run some patchs saturated with solvent thru it and then let it sit for a few minutes and then scrub again. Now try a tight clean patch and see if you still feel the tight and loose spots. If you do give one more thing a try. This time put a bit of WD - 40 on that brush and scrub the bore again. If you have any leading in the bore the WD -40 will break the cohesiveness of the lead to the barrel and the action of scrubbing with the brush will break it down to where it will come out on a clean patch almost like a grey paste. You will go thru a lot of patchs and elbow grease but I think it is worth the effort if you can get grampa's old gun to shoot again.

Just my thoughts ... Pete

[aspangler]

Dan, a couple of things. First check the crown of the muzzle of your barrel to make sure it is not damaged with any nicks. Gas escaping from a nick in a crown at the muzzle as your bullet exits the bore will cause accuracy troubles by tipping the bullet.

You mentioned finding loose and tight spots when slugging the bore. This could mean the barrel is wore out or maybe it has built up fouling and possibly leading in the bore over the years. Get a new bore brush and with a good solvent give that bore a really good scrubbing. Next run some patchs saturated with solvent thru it and then let it sit for a few minutes and then scrub again. Now try a tight clean patch and see if you still feel the tight and loose spots. If you do give one more thing a try. This time put a bit of WD - 40 on that brush and scrub the bore again. If you have any leading in the bore the WD -40 will break the cohesiveness of the lead to the barrel and the action of scrubbing with the brush will break it down to where it will come out on a clean patch almost like a grey paste. You will go thru a lot of patchs and elbow grease but I think it is worth the effort if you can get grampa's old gun to shoot again.

Just my thoughts ... Pete

Beat me too it. Leading is very common in the older rifles.

[Merick]

Not to say you didn't check these things, (stock screw tight, clean bore) and also not yet mentioned check the sights not loose. My suspicion is your ammo was the problem, I'd bet quality control has gone out the window with the recent demand.

[22-250ohio]

And dont forget to clean the leade area this a common area of a carbon deposits typical I clean this area with jb and then follow up with isso.

[Cowboy_Dan]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I am busy till Thursday, but I will take a good look at it then. As far as other ammo, that may be a while before I find another brand localy. Leading coud be a problem, I didn't see any traces (as far as I know to look for) of lead, but could have missed some in the leade. The crown is at least as good as the one on my Mosin.

I suppose I should mention that "Grandpa's old gun" is one which he would have readily offered for sale. He was a vendor for his local gun shows, and this one had a tag which read $50. I also inheritd much nicer firearms, including an 1897 vintage Wnchester 1894 in .30-30. That is a different story, but I felt the need to brag. Also the .22 is a youth model and the short length of pull may be part of the problem. I have had trouble grouping it both with the irons and an inexpensive 4x20 optic.

I am recalling that when I first recieved the gun, I cleaned it first. Durng this first cleaning, I found rust. I cntnued cleaning with Hoppe's #9 and a copper brush until I no longer detected rust n patches run through the bore. After I type this out, I realize it is at the very least the culprit for the loose/tight spots and oerhaps all of the issues.

Follow up questions:
1 I read above about cleaning with JB. When I hear JB, I think J-B weld, and that would be horrible for cleaning. What is the product referred to, is it easily available, and how suitable is it for a microgroove barrel?
2 What is the "isso" for the follow up to the JB stage described above?

[GoodOlBoy]

I am going to throw this out. Try SLOWER 22 ammo. Rate of twist in SOME old 22s doesn't like the modern stuff, particularly hyper-velocity stuff. I have a old single shot that you can't hit a barn door with CCI Stingers and other high velocity stuff. But you put subsonic, or shorts in it and bingo you can hit a dime with it.

GoodOlBoy

[6bg6ga]

I'll second the slower ammunition. Some of the older rifles didn't fair too well with high speed ammo.

[gmsharps]

Also check to see if you have a bulged barrel. That would affect the groups also. If it is close to the end of the muzzle like under the front sight it would be difficult to see but a cleaning rod with a tight patch and you should feel if it has a bulge or not. Just something easy to check.

gmsharps

[oneokie]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I am busy till Thursday, but I will take a good look at it then. As far as other ammo, that may be a while before I find another brand localy. Leading coud be a problem, I didn't see any traces (as far as I know to look for) of lead, but could have missed some in the leade. The crown is at least as good as the one on my Mosin.

I suppose I should mention that "Grandpa's old gun" is one which he would have readily offered for sale. He was a vendor for his local gun shows, and this one had a tag which read $50. I also inheritd much nicer firearms, including an 1897 vintage Wnchester 1894 in .30-30. That is a different story, but I felt the need to brag. Also the .22 is a youth model and the short length of pull may be part of the problem. I have had trouble grouping it both with the irons and an inexpensive 4x20 optic.

I am recalling that when I first recieved the gun, I cleaned it first. Durng this first cleaning, I found rust. I cntnued cleaning with Hoppe's #9 and a copper brush until I no longer detected rust n patches run through the bore. After I type this out, I realize it is at the very least the culprit for the loose/tight spots and oerhaps all of the issues.

Follow up questions:
1 I read above about cleaning with JB. When I hear JB, I think J-B weld, and that would be horrible for cleaning. What is the product referred to, is it easily available, and how suitable is it for a microgroove barrel?
2 What is the "isso" for the follow up to the JB stage described above?

JB is JB bore paste.
Isso is a polish/cleaner used for cleaning brass.

[Cowboy_Dan]

Re-cleaned the .22 today folowing 451 Pete's regimin above. I startedby looking down the bore with the brightest light I couod find. It looked shiny, except for a dark (maybe black?) ring about 2" from the muzzle. I am not sure what this could be.

I scrubbed the bore with a bronze brush dipped in Hoppe's about 7 round trips. I followed this with a patch wrapped arround said brush saturated with Hoppe's twice. I let it all sit for about 5 minutes before running several dry patches down with a jag. They looked much like patches run down for normal cleaning. Looking down the bore, it was maybe, but just maybe, a little shinier, and the dark ring was still there. At this time, I felt tight spots only with a patch-wrapped brush. The tight spot is at or near the dark ring.

Next, I sprayed WD40 directly on the brush and gave it 3 round trips in the bore and let it sit. I followed this with one dry patch on the brush, scrubbing a bit at the dark ring, and follow up with dry patches and a jag. Patches still looked much like regular cleaning dry patches, but had a slight brownish (rust) tinge on the first one. No grey sludge, so I am pretty sure leading is not a problem. Bore was no shinier than after the last step, and the dark ring was still there.

I didn't use any abrasives. I am normally a minimalist when it comes to cleaning, and this was quite a bit more than I normally do. I wonder what the dark ring tight spot is. I can only see it when I look from the muzzle, and it is hard to tell if it is perpendicular to the bore or if it spirals slightly since it doesn't fully close. If it spirals, it turns counter to the rifling.

Ammo-wise, I found some of the Aguilla .22 LR CB's, the ones without powder, and maybe look for some slower ones. Thanks for all of the suggestions so far, and any future ones are appreciatd.

[fatelk]

It looked shiny, except for a dark (maybe black?) ring about 2" from the muzzle.

Without seeing it I couldn't say for sure, but that sure sounds like it could be a bulge to me. Checking very closely, is there any sign of bulging on the outside at the same spot where the dark ring is inside? A couple inches from the muzzle is a very typical spot for a bulge. Usually happens when someone gets a plug of dirt in the end of the barrel from accidentally poking it in the ground, then they shoot it out. Possibly the tightness you're feeling is just before or after the looseness of the bulge?

Without seeing it I could be completely wrong; just a suggestion of something to check for.

[Cowboy_Dan]

Went to the range today. Brought grandpa's old .22 with me to see what kink of accuracy I could milk out of it. Used the cheap rest I have on hand and fired 100 rounds. 25 Aguila .22 Colibri, 25 CCI standard velocity lrn, 25 Remington Thunddrbolts, and 25 Winchester bulk white box. Rounds were sorted for consistency by weight and were within .6 gr. for each brand. Firing was at 50 yards on a windy day coming from 12 to 10 O'clock. Periods of gust were avoided as much as possible. Aguilas failed to mark cardnoard, but were heard to strike it. A few slight marks were left. In target below, CCI is marked blue, Remington green, and Winchester orange. All made respectable groups for conditions. I think this warrants further testing.



Sorry target is sideways, left side was up at the range.

[country gent]

Iosso also makes a bore paste for cleaning thats a very fine abrasive cleaner similar to JBs. Another issue is alot of these older .22s seen alot of corrosive ammo and throats leads can be very rough or on the larger side from years of this ammos use. Clean good working it with lots of solvents meant for lead and carbon removal. A tight fitting patch and jag combo can give an idea as to tight spots or a ring bulge in the barrel. As said above test ammo difrent brands and lot numbers both.

[Dave C.]

How much would it cost to get the barrel relined?

[Cowboy_Dan]

How much would it cost to get the barrel relined?

That's a good question. I don't know of any smiths in the area that do this, maybe not even any that can. The barrel does pin on, perhaps it would be better to replace it than reline it?

[Cmm_3940]

Will a replacement bbl from a Marlin fit it? Is your Sears gun a semiauto? The Marlin 60 was sold by several different retail stores under their own brand names. Numrich has used Marlin 60 bbls available.

Also, hyper velocity ammo patterns like a shotgun from my old 22's. Cheapo Thunderbolts and RGB's shoot better than yellowjackets. You might also want to try standard or subsonic.

-Chris

[largom]

How is the crown? Old guns cleaned from the muzzle usually have the crowns wore out.

Larry