300 BLK mold...Lee TL309-230-5R

[jacobslagle018]

I am in the process of building a new ar platform and decided to give 300 BLK a chance. I do plan on adding a can to this project, but I am also looking to make it into a pistol/sbr build. I am looking at a barrel of 10-12 inches or so with a pistol length gas tube. Again I am still learning a lot about this platform so even if you have no info on this mold, just anything on the platform in general would be helpful. Now the questions.

Obviously keeping bullet cost low is a big reason to cast. I was wondering what everyone thought about this particular mold. I have 6 Lee molds and love them all, but they are all for pistols. If it matters, I always go with powder coating over LLA or other lubes for my bullets. If I can hit a 6x6 steel gong at 75 yards I am happy. Will these bullets give me the capability to do that?

[Moonie]

I have one, you should avoid it. If you want a great mold that feeds flawlessly and has good accuracy look at the lee 312-155. If you want a subsonic look at the Accurate Molds/NOE 245/247 molds. They feed decently with the right magazines. I have a new one by A.C.E. but not sure about them going forward, it is a 235gr and works very well so far.

[Elkins45]

I think $20 or so isn't much of an investment to find out how your rifle feels about it. I have a 10" and a 16" blackout upper, and both shoot the heavy Lee about as well as any other cast bullet. Just as a point of contrary data the tumble lubed Lee shoots better for me with subsonic loads than the NOE. So it pays to try them for yourself.

[1johnlb]

Your sit-up will make the difference on the lee 230, but most people have trouble with the lee 230, myself included on my 8" pistol. A can is almost a neccessity with the lee230. Keep in mind that the 300blk and the lee230 are designed for a can at subsonic fps. Many people are redesigning their AR and opening up the gas port so to cycle the lee 230, because of the lack of the can. I wouldn't recommend opening the port. Without the can you have lowwer gas port pressure thus difficulty cycling the AR platform.

The Lee 312 155 is a sure win and easy on the lead pile while having a higher fps it's over spun but still with very acceptable accuracy. 6x6 plate at 75yds, no problem. So in short my 2cents, start with the lee 312 155 until you get the can then go with the lee 230. It will save you some head ache

[2wheelDuke]

For the price of the mold, it's worth a shot. I haven't had the best results trying to keep them subsonic and getting them to cycle at the same time. But I'm talking about in a 16" with a carbine length gas system, and I couldn't find any AA1680 powder.

Mine hasn't been the easiest mold to get good results with, the long skinny shape doesn't help.

Powder coat may give some chambering issues of it's own due to thickness around the chamber throat in the long booilts. However, Hi-Tek is looking pretty promising as an alternative.

I'm really starting to covet a pistol length gun with a sig brace. Then I'd want a can and to SBR it.

[jacobslagle018]

For the price of the mold, it's worth a shot. I haven't had the best results trying to keep them subsonic and getting them to cycle at the same time. But I'm talking about in a 16" with a carbine length gas system, and I couldn't find any AA1680 powder.

Mine hasn't been the easiest mold to get good results with, the long skinny shape doesn't help.

Powder coat may give some chambering issues of it's own due to thickness around the chamber throat in the long booilts. However, Hi-Tek is looking pretty promising as an alternative.

I'm really starting to covet a pistol length gun with a sig brace. Then I'd want a can and to SBR it.

Thats actually exactly what I am doing. I will start with super sonic just because I will not have the can right away. Once I do though I will stick to the subsonic loads. That's ks again for all of the input guys. Also I just picked up a 12 inch barrel with a pistol gas tube see up.

On another note, can anyone send me some links on how to cut/form 5.56 brass into 300 block out brass? I know it probably isn't hard to find, by I am at work and only get 2 short breaks. I would prefer to read what I need to buy rather than try to find it haha. Thanks again for the input. Keep it coming.

[petroid]

I get about 3moa with that boolit cast from 50/50 pb/coww fully functional subsonic without a can with a 12.5" pistol gas 1:7 cmmg. These are chronoed loads.

[wlc]

I've got the Lee 230gr mold. I don't use it any more. If you will PM me your address I'll let you have it. I had no luck with it. I have the ACE 230gr mold and so far really like it. I've, in initial testing, got a .89" group (6 shots) @50 yards. This was just working a load to get full function in my AR. I've about decided on a load and will do more thorough accuracy testing with it.

As far as learning how to form the brass I would suggest going to 300BLKtalk and searching there or on youtube. Its not too hard, just takes time. I cut the 223 brass off to rough length, run it through my sizer die then trim to length, chamfer etc. To me at least it is much easier, and if you count your time as anything, to buy from a member here and at 300blktalk named Grumpa. he converts 5.56 brass to 300BLK along with doing other calibers. Good brass. IIRC he will also form your brass for you.

[GRUMPA]

As far as learning how to form the brass I would suggest going to 300BLKtalk and searching there. Its not too hard. I cut the 223 brass off to rough length, run it through my sizer die then trim to length, chamfer etc. To me at least it is much easier, and if you count your time as anything, to buy from a member here and at 300blktalk named Grumpa. Good brass. IIRC he will also form your brass for you.

Go here....

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...php?117-Grumpa

Just click the 300BO thread...

[jacobslagle018]

On another note, can someone recommend a reloading manual that has 300 blackout info? I have a Lyman 49th but it doesn't have any data on this round.

Also as far as casting the actual boolits, I use range scrapped lead bought from members here. Generally speaking will these be hard enough or should i add something to give them a little more strength?

[bruce drake]

Hodgdon's Annual Reloading Manual usually can be found in most magazine news racks. They have had 300Blackout in their magazine's loading data since 2010. Every year they update their load data so it should keep you up to date on Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester and Norma powders which they own or import.

Bruce

[skizzums]

I am really surprised to hear all the negative reviews on this mold. my little pistol has seen at least 5-600 rounds of the LEE 230 and I love em. I will say, I had a hard time keeping the lead under control before I started powdercoat. but still, it's 20$. feeds perfect for me as long as I am using p-mags or any brand with a good divider, like CAA

[GRUMPA]

Why is it when I look at those pictures I think of lipstick?

[wlc]

Jacob,

I use wheelweight lead mostly so can't speak to the range lead which may be soft cores from jacketed rounds mixed with commercial cast that is probably fairly hard to home cast of unknown make up. Do you have any idea of the hardness of the range lead you are using? What velocity do you want to achieve? For me only loading and shooting subs the WW lead is more than plenty hard, I could probably go with 50/50 WW and pure and do good.

As far as load data, most powder companies have data online now. If you want to go subsonic 1680 is a good choice in an AR and from what I've been reading lil gun is supposed to be pretty good for supers. With all the shortage of powders now folks have been doing a lot of experimenting/educated guessing. I've used 5744 and 1680, and have a really quiet load using greendot(it won't cycle at all), and when my 1680 runs out I'm gonna try rl7. The BLK is real easy to load for if you don't have to worry about cycling the action of the AR. If I had a bolt or single shot there are an great many powders that can be used. I'm (im)patiently waiting on the new Ruger American Ranch in 300blk to show up in one of our dealers racks then I may ditch the AR upper in 300BLK depending on how the Ruger shoots.

I really suggest the powder company data, but if they have no loads for the powders you have then go over to 300BLKtalk and look in the handloading and/or casting subforums. Lots of info over there and they don't seem to be the type to blow smoke so to speak.

ETA, The latest Hornady load book has a good bit of data for the BLK. I forgot about it.

[jacobslagle018]

Alrighty folks just an update. I have my 12" barrel and pistol length gas system. Thanks to wlc, I now have the lee 309-230 mold I have been asking about. As far as load data I have done some searching and it looks like its kind of all over the place as far as what to use.

If anyone has some starting loads for this mold I would appreciate it. I will powder coat for my casting if that matters. I don't care at this time whether they are super or subs, just anything that this mold or similar weights will fire in an ar. I have seen that there are a few powders that are highly recommended. I was able to get a pound of h110 and IMR 4227 locally today. If there are any other recommendations I will see what I can find. I looked up some info on hodgdon site and found that the 230 loads that are listed are for plated. Will I be ok dropping the charge a grain or two? Also they tested in a 16" barrel. Will mine being 12 affect it that much?

[wlc]

Can't really help with the 12" barrel, but with a similar bullet as the Lee design I can load down to about 10.2-10.3 grains of 1680 and still get cycling in MY 16" carbine gassed AR. 10.4 is the load I've settled on as it has shown pretty good accuracy and cycles every time and stays subsonic. The latest Hornady book has several loads for bullet weights across the spectrum from light to heavy.

I just checked my manual and they list loads with both your powders with bullets from 125 up to 225gr. I really suggest getting it. Start low and work your way up to where you are still safe and get the results you desire.

[skizzums]

A lee 230 with 10.7 grains of 4227 is what has ended up working the best for my 8" barrel. I have used h100 and lil gun, but nothing beats the 4227. I like lil gun for lightweights. Your barrel length will probably work with a lighter load than mine, I believe hodgon's shows 10.5 max for the 230. But that's max for subsonic speed, not pressure. You can far surpass the 10.5 before getting anywhere close to 55kpsi, so just keep working up until you get reliable cycle, which should be somewhere between 10.5 and 11gr of 4227. Good luck

[fcvan]

I haven't tried them in my 16" carbine yet, but my first test with the 9.5" pistol was flawless. I ESPCd, loaded as cast over 10.5 grains of 4227, seated to the front driving band. I fired 10 rounds of ESPC with a low of 1075 fps, high of 1104, and an average of 1080. I fired another 10 rounds of ASBBDT with similar results. It started raining as all get-out so I had a very short test and the chronograph wasn't reading well. All in all I have found a great load for rolling tin cans at 100 yards. I can't wait for a day off where it isn't raining so I can do some more tests and kill some more cans, both with the pistol and the carbine.

[Twstanley]

One alternative powder to 1680 is Norma 200, it takes a grain or two more than 1680 since its a bit slower, but it's made cycling my 16 inch carbine with a carbine gas system work for 190 gr and heavier sub sonics in 300 blk.

[odfairfaxsub]

I love this bullet so much I wish they made a 6 cavity... I use 4198 in mine and get 5 bullets into something that looks like a 1/4 inch inside to inside at 50 yards