44 WCF black powder factory loads

[Thomas Traddles]

w30wcf, do you know what kind of velocities are achieved with the 21.5g of BP in the 38 special?

Char-Gar,
Thank you for the update and pic. The factory bullets were swaged and had vertical lines in the grooves from the tooling used to rotate the bullets while forming the lube groove under pressure. They also had a slight cup base. I did a little further research to see if I could find any reference to harder bullets than pure lead.....but could find none.


Billy,
B.P. granulation in the .44 W.C.F. & .44-40 b.p. cartridges I dissected were like FFG once I removed the fines from the powder being compressed.

Being a student of some of the early b.p. cartridges, I have had the opportunity to also procure and dissect these cartridges:
.22 L.R. / .25-20 / .32 LC / .38 Special / .44 Henry / .44 Special / .45 Colt / .45-70

The powder used in the .38 Special was 3F - 21.5 grs. by weight.



Notice that the primer was struck on some of those cartridges but the mercuric priming had long since died.
I pulled the bullets with an impact puller, removed the powder for reuse, then removed the primers and discarded them.
The brass was cleaned, then annealed, new Rem 1 1/2 primers inserted, the powder replaced, and bullets reseated after they were relubed.

They worked just like they would have back in the early 1900's when they were made over 100 years ago....

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Thomas,
Rem-Umc catalogs back then showed 960 f.p.s. A check of the original reprimed ammunition in my 6 1/2" Ruger turned up 967 f.p.s.. Interestingly, there was no loss of power in the past 100 years or so.

In the Marlin levergun, velocity was 1,218 f.p.s. average.

.38 b.p. bullets...


w30wcf

[Thomas Traddles]

w30wcf, Thank you for that information. I find that to be very interesting. I'm afraid to hijack the thread here with a few more questions, so I hope folks forgive me.

Do standard factory loads meet this velocity? Why have +p and FBI loads? Why have ammo companies and reloading manuals downloaded the cartridge? Finally, while I have not shot BP in some time, I wonder if the recoil from BP loads of 21.5 grains of black powder is less sharp than say the +P loadings in smokeless cartridges? Can you comment on this?


Again, my apologies for the hijack.

T

[w30wcf]

Thomas,
The standard .38 Special 158 gr loading is cataloged at 755 f.p.s. The current +P 158 is 890 fps. Earlier +P loads were in the 900-over 1,000 f.p.s. range. The reason for downloading could possibly be because of a switch to faster burning powders.

Regarding the recoil between the +P and b.p. loadings I do not have any actual experience but based on the velocities I would think they should be pretty similar.

w30wcf

[44man]

Swiss is the best, no doubt at all. I get 1102 fps from my Old Army with 41 gr of Swiss FFFG and it puts deer on the ground fast. I remove the cylinder to load with a tool I made that seats the same distance with the same compression.
Lanolin really helps a BP lube, seems to absorb moisture to keep fouling softer.

[w30wcf]

"Swiss is the best."
+1
Olde Enysford is right up there too.

w30wcf