357 "light loads"

[chickenstripe]

I have a Marlin 1984C in 357. Everyone is typically concerned with velocity, whereas I'm going the other route. What is the slowest, safe velocity to be pushing a bullet out of this gun. I did some informal testing with some bullets that I happened upon that weigh in at 171gr, and look like a keith bullet. Clocked at 450fps over 1.5gr W231, standard SP primer, 38special cases, light crimp. Also tried the light loads with some 210gr SSK's that I had around 400fps, with the same load. Verifying that the bullet was clear of the barrel after each shot. Little louder than a 22 rimfire, lots of potential downrange punch. (social load)

Anything I should be concerned with? There were no signs of pressure, just a bunch of soot. Is their another powder that would be better suited to this? Just used W231, because it was the "powder in front"..... Any experince/feedback is appreciated.

[kawalekm]

Hi CS
Take a look at Speer's #9 or #10 manuals. They have light 357 loads made with their swaged lead bullets, because they use solf alloy only. Powders range from Bullseye to Herco. I don't have any charge weights in front of me, but I remember that rifle length barrel produced about 300 fps more than a 6 inch barrel. What also I remember is that they even tested starting charges powders like Bullseye and 700X which went down the barrel just fine. I can get some numbers for you when I get home tonight.
Michael

[Wicky]

Red dot is also a good powder for light loads, check out Alliants reloading pamphlet.
Good luck.
I use 440 round balls in my 44 Mag at 440 fps as a fun shooter.
Not too sure of the loads as I'm sitting a work at the moment - working hard of course.

[chickenstripe]

I have 700X, but none of the others you had spoke of....

The bullets I used are soft lead, not sure if they're swaged or not. Not using them for anything else, they were given to me, or leftovers from old projects.

Lookin' forward to the info kawalekm.

[kawalekm]

Hi Chickenstripe
Got out my manual and saw that it's Speer #11. Shows you to be carefull about any numbers somebody gives you over the internet.

Well, the 700X data for Speer's 158 grain Swaged lead bullet is 3.0 grains gives 737fps; 4.0 gives 979fps, and 5.0 gives 1221fps. This is in a Marlin 94 with an 18.5" barrel. The same 5.0 grains of 700X gives 1002fps in a 6" security-six.

The very lightest load they give in the rifle is 2.8grains of Bullseye with 689fps in the Marlin.

Speer #10 has 231 data, but only in the 6" security-six. They used 4.9grains of 231 to push the same 158 grain bullet to 897fps and 5.4 grains of 321 to push it to 989fps. I think you can add 200-250fps to get velocities out of the Marlin.

Remember though that these numbers are for 158 grain bullets. You can set up a porportion to estimate the weight to use with your 171 grain bullet.

Good shooting,
Michael

[Old Ironsights]

I have a Marlin 1984C in 357. Everyone is typically concerned with velocity, whereas I'm going the other route. What is the slowest, safe velocity to be pushing a bullet out of this gun. I did some informal testing with some bullets that I happened upon that weigh in at 171gr, and look like a keith bullet. Clocked at 450fps over 1.5gr W231, standard SP primer, 38special cases, light crimp. Also tried the light loads with some 210gr SSK's that I had around 400fps, with the same load. Verifying that the bullet was clear of the barrel after each shot. Little louder than a 22 rimfire, lots of potential downrange punch. (social load)

Anything I should be concerned with? There were no signs of pressure, just a bunch of soot. Is their another powder that would be better suited to this? Just used W231, because it was the "powder in front"..... Any experince/feedback is appreciated.

Another convert to the .357 Catsneeze Club!

I use 1 to 1.5gr Titegroup. A little dirty, but no position issues... and CHEEEEP to shoot.

[chickenstripe]

Old Ironsights, have any idea what velocity those loads are running?

[Old Ironsights]

Old Ironsights, have any idea what velocity those loads are running?

About 500fps.

I haven't clocked them, but they seem to have about the same sound/POI/recoil of my 777 & Farina (or BP & farina) load, which I did Chrony at 500fps.

BTW, 5gr 777 or 4F under farina to compression works pretty well - but the farina makes a mess in the basement.

[xtimberman]

This is a very interesting thread! My so-called light loads are a whole lot hotter than these!

As a matter of reference, is there a minimum velocity threshold that you don't want to go below when developing ultra-light cast bullet loads in .357 magnum? I'm asking about a minimum velocity where you wouldn't worry about a bullet sticking in the bore.

Thanks,

xtm

[Old Ironsights]

Whatever will come out of the bore and still hit your chosen target at your chosen distance with your chosen energy...

For me that's right at 500fps and a 180gr boolit.

For someone else it could be different.

[Blammer]

so, can you recover them cast bullets and reuse em with out having to melt and cast em agian?

[xtimberman]

Thanks for the quick reply!

500 fps is a good minimum velocity threshold with cast bullets in most any firearm. My jacketed bullet min. velocity is a lot higher than that in a carbine.

xtm

[chickenstripe]

Well the accuracy at 25yds is something. 5-shot groups, all holes touching. Although the 210's keyhole a bit, but group well. Same POI as my 1750fps, 158 XTP's at 100yds. This should be a good "round-the-house" load, since we have racoon issues in my neck of the woods. Just about perfect for me.

[KCSO]

Light also works the other way too, I have a bunch of 100 grain HB double ended wadcutter bullets. These with a light charge of bullseye are an excellent load for indoor ranges and make a super small game load.

[Old Ironsights]

so, can you recover them cast bullets and reuse em with out having to melt and cast em agian?

No, they deform on my backstop, (vertically hung carpet samples).

[srayc]

I shoot a lyman #358101 75gr WC boolit backed with 1.5 700X for a very mild and cheap plinking round. Accurate.

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
Just a thought! If you loaded hollow base wadcutters upside down, they'd make a unbeleivable light load racoon killer wouldn't they??? It would be like throwing a garbage tin at them.
Juddy

[Old Ironsights]

Yep. Unfortunately they won't feed for beans in my Rossi M92...

[Ramslammer]

G'Day Old Ironsights
I'd single load them just to see how they worked. Down here it would be possums but it would still be interesting.
Juddy