Questions about casting and relaoding 12 gauge

[hickfu]

I just ordered the Lyman sabot slug mold and I have WAA12 white wads on the way along with Winchester AA hulls. Now I have been hearing that you should only load slugs in the highbrass hulls... Is this true? If so I will start looking for some but if I can load them in the regular Winchester AA hulls that would be good!

Just picked up some Clay Dot, 700x, 800x... couldnt find any Herco anywhere..

Thanks,
Doc

[GRUMPA]

I load mine with the regular AA hulls, different wad though and use B-Dot. I just got in some 800X but I have data for that but have yet to test it..

[FullTang]

You can certainly use AA hulls for loading these; performance is somewhat limited in tapered hulls (AA and STS types) compared to straight wall hulls (Fed, Fiocchi, etc.), but AAs work just fine. Not sure I'd really want to drive those big slugs over 1500 fps anyway!

[hickfu]

I just picked up some power pistol for the 9 and 45 so it free's up the 700x and 800x to use in shotgun loading... And no I would not want to shoot a slug past 1500fps. I was looking at some where between 1300 and 1400fps max. I have some fiocchi and feds but they are loaded rounds so as soon as they are empty I will maybe use them for slugs to keep them separate from shotshell's

[jmort]

If you do some research, you will see that you don't need high brass, but they look cool. I use the AA hulls and like them. Winchester and Remington are tapered hulls and Fiocchi, Federal, Chedite, Rio are all straight wall. The straight and tapered hulls use different wads.

[bikerbeans]

Doc,

Low brass winchester hulls are fine for slugs. I have launched a 600g HB 12ga slug at +1600 fps using a 2.75" AA hull. It took a fair amount of Blue Dot to get that velocity. Shot one deer with that load and now I have a 1,350 fps "speed limit" on my 10ga and 12ga slugs. Makes my shoulder and forehead much happier.

BB

[hickfu]

LOL, I'll bet your shoulder and forehead feel better.... I used to like recoil and loaded my 45-70 as close as I could get it to 458 Win Mag. Now I hurt so much all the time I want something that doesnt punish my body.

Im just learning about shot shell reloading, Its different then metallic reloading.... a lot of different variables

[littlejack]

High brass was/is a selling gimmick.
I load the Lyman slug in Remington Gun Club (tapered) hulls with no problems. I use Herco for the push and WAA12 wads.
By the way, what shotshell manual do you have?
No problems.
Regards
Jack

[hickfu]

Lymans shot shell #3 I also have a program called SnagIt and I went on to IMR's and Hodgdon's sites and got all their load data for the shells I will be using with ALL powder loads downloaded into a pdf.

I will be looking for more up to date shot shell load books to read through though

[GunFun]

I load lots of slugs in the Remington Gun Club type shells. I usually use the green ones for shot and the black ones for slugs. These are monolithic plastic so they don't have any fiber to degrade or get damaged by moisture. They have low base steel case heads that seldom really need any sizing. For the most part their load data is going to be identical to the STS, so my loads will be for either GC or STS depending on what I have on hand or whether I am going to gift them to a family member...

To me the hull choice among my regular picks is determined by color for identification. The winchester wads work well with the STS or gun club hulls since they are tapered with a plastic basewad. I do about 2-3 reloads in the gun clubs and then chuck them. I could probably do many more, but it is silly to try to get 20 reloads out of an expensive hull like the STS or win AA, etc. That means for the last 12 or loads so you have worn out inconsistent crimps. Better to do 2-3 reloads in a quality hull that is constantly available for free and have a good uniform like brand new crimp every time.

I like to use the federal wads, because I think the stronger spring type cushion tends to do better with the slugs. The lee 7/8 oz slug will bulge in the gun club hull with the Federal 12SO. In just about every other hull combo with that or the 1 0z slug, this is my prefered wad. It works fine in this hull with the 1 oz slug but bulges with the 7/8. Not sure why that is, because the slugs measure the same at the widest point. So for those, I use the Win AA12SL (Silver)

The AA hulls, and also Rem STS are exellent. I also really like the federal gold medal, but you will have to size that mid brass. If you use gold medal, make sure to use a wad designed for straight hulls, such as the federal 12S3 for your 525 slugs. (Those typically fit well in 1 1/8 oz wads)

Here is a picture you may find helpful:

Also, get the name brand wads for the slugs. For most versions, the claybusters clones won't work because they have a slightly different interior shape at the base of the shotcup. This prevents the slug from fitting all the way down and sitting squarely.

Actually push a slug and wad combo through your bore to ensure a safe constriction passage. If you pass that test, then be sure to pick up a few fired wads at the range. Loads that don't cut off the petals or deform the wad in a lopsided way tend to be better shooters. If you find you are getting pinched lopsided petals, you might want to experiment with DownRange brand wads. They are a little thinner.

You're going to have a lot of fun.

[bikerbeans]

Im just learning about shot shell reloading, Its different then metallic reloading.... a lot of different variables

Doc,

Different = much more difficult. Finding an accurate slug load is more difficult than finding the Holy Grail.

BB

[FLHTC]

High brass was/is a selling gimmick.
I load the Lyman slug in Remington Gun Club (tapered) hulls with no problems. I use Herco for the push and WAA12 wads.
By the way, what shotshell manual do you have?
No problems.
Regards
Jack

No during the early paper shell days, it actually was functional but as companies started leaning away from it in the dawn of plastic shells, shooters still associated high brass with powerful loads. To sell their products, manufacturers kept the high brass signature and it was driven by the purchaser, not the manufacturer.

You may want to use a card under the slug to keep the gas seal from being extruded up into the base upon firing. Accuracy will be much better this way. I've just spent weeks working up a good load for the sabot and there are literally dozens of combinations that provide acceptable slug accuracy. I'm using a rifled Encore barrel and it shoots beautifully.

[GunFun]

Doc,

Different = much more difficult. Finding an accurate slug load is more difficult than finding the Holy Grail.

BB

Call me king arthur then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uJz...IHni8Lqi7076qL

Please note that there are categories for 25 yards and normal shotguns too. The goal is to aggregate data on what really works/ what is the modal performance capability of a given load.

[FLHTC]

Call me king arthur then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uJz...IHni8Lqi7076qL

Please note that there are categories for 25 yards and normal shotguns too. The goal is to aggregate data on what really works/ what is the modal performance capability of a given load.

Is there any additional testing and research on this? Since it's from the Knights Templar, it should become a "Sticky" when complete.

[GunFun]

The google drive charts can always be viewed, even by non-players. As more people play data will be generated. Since the contest requires you to declare a target an entry before you shoot it, the data should reflect the average of your ability, not the best target you cherry-picked. This should give more meaningful data. The contest is new and not well known yet, so there is not much to work with yet. I think as more people play, more people will want to. Then hopefully someone who is better than I with statistics can help to analyse the results.

As it is, you can sort for handload and guns similar to yours and that will allow you to only look at the most pertinent entries to your usage.

[hickfu]

Ok, here is another dumb question.... Does the primer make that big of deal in the load data? I see everything I have listed in one load but with Rem primers instead of Winchester Primers. Can I substitute primers? maybe back off a grain and try it?

I use both Winchester and CCI in rifle rounds and never notice a difference


Doc

[GunFun]

Shotgun primers make a bigger difference. Generally Federal are hotter and make more pressure. A guy I know had a bunch of loads tested with primer substitutions. The differences were significant. Substituting equal weights of ejecta is pretty safe, but stick to the book with the other components.

[littlejack]

AHHH, verbal jousting.
In todays world of plastic hulls, high brass does not have any significant advantage over the low brass hulls.
Consumers use the high brass "factory" loads to differentiate the heavy loads, compared to lighter loads of the low brass hulls.
Although, when reloading, one CAN load the low brass hulls to the same pressures of the high brass loads.
In todays world of plastic hulls, it is a selling gimmick. Not a necessity at all.

[Geezer in NH]

Payload weight is the same whether shot slug or buck physics are the same IMHO

[GunFun]

Pretty much, for practical purposes. Shot stacks obturate under acceleration, so the same recipe will yield slightly lower pressures and slightly higher velocities when slugs are substituted for shot.

I use my slugs in fast birdshot data loads all the time. I just make sure the rest of the components are identical, and keep at or under the max.

RCBS's book offers many more choices in faster recipes than lyman. Also, the same recipe is listed multiple times, with more powder. This way you can see the pressure and velocity if you were to take the same load and add or reduce a grain or two.