Developing an AR/MSR subforum within the Factory Rifle forum

[bruce drake]

Btroj,

You should go back to the other thread and revise your last statement there saying you haven't voted on this question of a sub-forum as I can see that you have. Yea or Nay, everyone has a right to voice their opinion regarding the idea of providing assistance to fellow shooters with this firearm and its system of operating with cast lead but saying one thing in one thread and doing the other in another thread leads to inconsistencies in the message.

Last time I did a quick check of retailers of these firearms, there a nearly a hundred different manufactorers/assemblers of this style of firearm. trying to compare it to establishing a Glock subforum which is only one specific firearm manufacturer is disengenious and diverting the basis of discussion on a semi-automatic rifle that many are now using. Its more equivalent to the forum having a subforum on Leverguns which it currently has while calling these rifles AR15 and other Modern Sporting Rifles as military firearms is also wrong as they have a different trigger mechanisms and bolt carriers which are designed to prevent them from functioning in the same manner as a military firearm.

But did you know that Winchester Lever Actions were issued as military firearms in several countries and were even used in combat alongside pump shotguns..so...with that logic you should close down the Leverguns forum and roll all the 1894 and 1895 Levergun threads into military firearms since they ALL obviously were developed for military contracts at one time or another. And perhaps we need to review the Blackpowder and Paperpatch Forums as well to pull all the threads referencing the Kentucky Rifle or the Springfield or Enfield rifles and put them in the Military forum as well since our Revolutionary Soldiers punched holes in the Brits and the Hessions with that Modern Assault rifle of the Time (heavens, those backwoods heathens are using rifled barrels and hiding behind trees and picking off our officers! So unsporting of them Wot!) And used those 45-70 Springfields and 40 caliber Enfields to kill our own brothers with them during the Civil War...or shoot up my Indian relatives out on the plains with the US Calvary in the 1870s...

There you go, sarcasm pushed right back at your arguments against the development of a subforum within Factory Rifles. All of my ARs don't have Property of the US Govt. stamped in their receivers so there is no reason to discount they were built in a civilian factory.

[Moonie]

I believe it has been decided, it really doesn't matter what the majority want. I really don't understand why some members have serious issues with AR's but it is what it is.

[btroj]

I have NO issues with AR style rifles. I own 2 of them. Went distinguished with one.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that each "platform" needs a separate forum. The mere concept of "platforms" makes me think we need a tacticool sub forum for these guys.

Maybe be we could have a BR forum, sniper rifle forum, a tricked out 1911 forum, and who knows what else.

Why are inline muzzleloaders lumped in with all the traditional ones?

At some point it just gets silly.

[garym1a2]

Glocks are a subset handguns. Many AR's nowdays are not factory rifles nor are they Military rifles. I made 3 of mine so they fall in neither class. All four of my Glocks fall in an existing forum, so does the 1911.

[btroj]

So do what I do, post in the special projects forum. The 30 XCB rifles aren't factory rifles either but we manage to find a home for threads regarding it.

What is the real harm to putting all AR threads in the military rifle forum?

[bruce drake]

30XCB is a simple wildcat chambering on rifles that normally can handle a x57 chambering. Its a project that maybe 20 people across the USA has decided to make, so yes it does belong in the pet project category.

But how many members of this forum own rifles like an AR or other MSR designs that perhaps could benefit from a collection of threads dedicated to getting these rifles to function and shoot accurately with cast bolits. Just the members who have voted yea on this thread probably out number the active air rifle forum that is here on the site. MSR shooters probably outnumber the people who own Star reloading machines but they have their own subforum. shouldn't they just be lumped in with the rest of the other casting equipment that is out there? As people say, if you want to know about a Star machine, you can hit the search button...

I still haven't heard from any moderators on this forum on their opinions or from the owner of the site... so to me the threads are still in consideration on the SUB - FORUM status. Hell, I'm not asking for a separate heading on the main screen but a sub-forum would be a means of compiling all the disparate threads that are on the entire forum and placing them in one neat and organized manner.

But remember, 90 years ago, when the first bolt-action rifles from WWI were coming back into the woods as surplus rifles with the WWI veteran to hunt deer, I'm sure the old fogies with their lever-actions and single-shots didn't like them new-fangled infernal military rifles in their woods either. So what are you? An old fogie or someone who is willing to adapt an old proven boolit design to a new type of rifle.

Bruce

[btroj]

Have you sent a PM to the site owner? I can assure you he doesn't read every post on the site.

I resent the old fogie comments. I am neither old or a fogie. I happen yo own a couple of ARs. I just happen to know posts regarding them belong in the military rifle forum.

If if a group of 50 people with interest in a topic all get together and find a common location to make the proper posts does it matter if it isn't a specific forum area? Do you guys know you can PN each other and determine where the posts should be?

[Love Life]

I will cast my vote as "Yes" to an AR forum or sub-forum.

I have AR's, don't shoot cast in them, never plan to, but maybe some day I will. Sho' would be nice to find all the info in one place instead of having to Google search it up.

People can call me lazy for that, but we can throw knuckles over it if we ever meet in person.

Summary: I vote yes to a subforum. My reasons are because I own AR style rifles and because I do not want to have to google search the various threads.

[35remington]

Swarm the military forum and make it your own. Bombard it with posts......you're certainly not getting the job done now. Is it possible that is because the interest level is low?

Since part of the above comments were directed at what I said on the other thread, I'll reply here. Comparing an AR to a Glock is hardly disingenuous as it is a single model for the most part. No matter who makes it, it's still an AR, and the parts are interchangeable to a very large degree.. Your argument would be relevant if we had subforums for 1911's, which has had even more makers and developers of parts over the years and in various countries than the AR does....but we don't.

Cast bullet usage and commentary is far, far, far more prevalent with the 1911 than with the AR. It doesn't have its own subforum either.....and its traffic level concerning its potential usage with cast bullets would be far higher than your proposed forum.

As I said, the site has never had a specific forum for a specific model of firearm.....or even brand, for that matter. You'd have to be less than a deep thinker not to wonder why. A reasonable conclusion is it is better this way somehow.

[35remington]

And incidentally, I don't have issues with AR's. I own more AR's than a lot of those here arguing for a special AR forum. I shoot cast in them. I find topics relevant to my interests here easily. Not sure why I am so blessed in so doing, but it ain't because of superior brains on my part.

I'm just pointing out practical realities, which are two in number and to date, absolutely unrefuted:

1) No other firearm model has its own specific subforum here, likely for reasons that the powers that be decided had to do with fairness and the avoidance of Balkanization. Believe me on this one. I moderate on a Balkanized site and it's a friggin' disaster.

Take the word of a moderator on that. If you aren't one, you can't imagine the headaches of catering to every niche interest out there. Way, way too many of the forums on our site having cobwebs and crickets living there, and too much time goes between posts to justify the time and bandwidth. We've pared some off over time. How many here think the moderators and site administrators don't regret creating an Airgun forum? (thankfully with no Benjamin or Crosman subforums!)

I would guess that they're resolved not to repeat that mistake, and further resolved not to break the policy of No Separate Forums For Specific Models of Firearms. I gave the reasons why they likely think that way.

2) Cast bullet topics specific to the AR don't generate a lot of traffic. The result will be a slow moving forum. Moderators and site administrators generally don't like this too much. The payoff is too low for the hassle involved. The site administrators particularly deal with a lot of guff.

[bruce drake]

964 comments on 300 Blackout which is mostly shot in AR style rifles although some shoot them in H&R single shots or have converted other 223 bolt rifles over to this cartridge.
340 comments references AK47 usage with lead
2520 comments referencing AR15 usage on this forum
15,500 comments reference cast 223 loads - numbers are high as many of these may be in bolt rifles for varmint usage but I also see queries on cast in AR15s.
719 comments on using 6.8 SPC cartridges - a cartridge developed for AR usage
416 comments on using 6.5 Grendel cartridges - another cartridge developed for AR usage
974 comments on using 7.62x39 cartridges in ARs
507 comments on lead bullets in AK47s

I guess it would be nice to have all these comments and threads in a concise area in easy access to our users versus having to google search for all of these comments.

Bruce

[btroj]

And they all have a home, in the military rifle forum. Take a look at what it says under the forum title, pretty well sums it up.

[bruce drake]

When did a 6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel ever become an official military cartridge? Please tell me the DODIC Codes for those calibers?

"If you have a favorite Mil-surp,sporterized or original this is where to brag or ask for help."

AR-15s are not Military Surplus. If I had purchased an out of date M16 from the government than it might have a home in this category. Since its a commercially developed rifle (Armalite and Colt developed them as civilian rifles first before the Air Force purchased the first full auto selective fire variants.) I still feel the AR15 belongs under the Factory Rifle designation and especially when its chambered in a caliber that isn't a military based cartridge.

[45 2.1]

So, ask for a semi-auto sub forum in military rifles............... Maybe the bickering would end that way.

[bruce drake]

Well then would the archaic Puritans out in Nebraska, Idaho and England who stated "no way" be satisfied with the creations of yet another sub-forum no matter what its name is which seems to be their main sticking point against the developing of a place to discuss cast bullets in modern sporting rifles. Hell, I thought that was what Moderators where for in the first place, to develop a consenus based off what the participants in the forum where discussing. I'd be satisfied with a creation of a sub-forum anywhere in the forum which collected every post regarding ARs AKs and other Modern Sporting firearms into one concise location.

I appreciate your post 45.2.1 as I know you've sat in and helped many a forum member in the past develop better cast loads for their rifles and pistols even to the point of designing new cast bullets to ensure an accurate load could be developed. What was irritating me during this was the attitudes of others who refused to even see the logic that these rifles and pistols based off these designs operate off different principles than the older Schuetzen or Lever-Action rifles and that the users of these newer designed rifles also could benefit from using some of those same principles of casting and shooting lead bullets to expand the use of these rifles in an economical worthwhile way. And if they developed the love of shooting cast in their semi-auto rifles, than perhas they would pick up the love of shooting other rifles and pistols with cast boolits as well.

Bruce

[dkf]

So, ask for a semi-auto sub forum in military rifles............... Maybe the bickering would end that way.

Basically aanything like that or even the discussion of what could be done was nixed from the beginning. I think a guy could get further with Harry Reid.

[btroj]

Has anyone actually asked an Admin about a sub forum? Anyone?

[bruce drake]

Yes in PMs to several Mods as well as the forum owner. Since you ain't one of them, I didn't include you in the address block but now you know.

[Hamish]

Whether they get a sub heading in "Factory Rifles", or their own heading, AR's are NOT military surplus.

[bruce drake]

whether they get a sub heading in "factory rifles", or their own heading, ar's are not military surplus.

exactly.