Not alway and it's not a factory rifle. Would you call a custom built rifle on a Mauser action a military rifle? Or one built on a 700 action? After all the military does use them. If the discussion is supposed to be strictly about shooting cast bullets the mods have been slacking because there is a lot more being discussed.
The responses seem to be on the side of more traffic would come about if there were fewer forums. And a separate subforum for AR's would accomplish this how, exactly?
As I pointed out.....the thread count just isn't there. Address this point, please. Powder coating is a subject the forum needs to address to keep its "hand in" in terms of information. This site will never be seen as the font of information on whether your LaRue tactical additions are the best thing for your AR.....best to keep the information cast bullet related as this is the area of expertise here. If you want pure AR discussion and better advice about AR's, go to something like m4carbine.net.
Seems logical, no? Unless you decide that logical is irrelevant.
Military rifles are just that. Being a bolt action doesn't disqualify it, as they were indeed used by the military. Semiautos are a more recent iteration, but in cast bullet usage they are not dominant to other types.
I would appreciate posting a link to the thread where the guy was "attacked" for placing a post about an AR in the military rifles forum.
Believe it when I see it.....but don't let being correct in forum selection dissuade you. If you were right in selecting that forum, and sounds like you were, you were right.
This is the most used cast bullet site on the web. Most must be able to find what they want such that it's no big inconvenience. I'm not sure there's much of a real reason for concern, but it also must be understood that the idea to divide a forum into endless iterations has to be resisted to some degree.
Last edited by 35remington; 10-28-2014 at 08:10 AM.
"Military Rifles" are built from "Production Parts" more so with refurbished surplus with new parts added. You are advocating AR15s be in "Factory Rifles" others say they belong in "Military Rifles", as I said before that should give a clue there is some issue.Originally Posted by Ajax
I did but it lay upon deaf ears. Everything is scattered and often gets overlooked. I actually signed up for this to get started in cast with ARs. I cam over here to get in a mold GB for a NATO mold suitable for ARs. I was looking around for information in CB Military Rifles. Little did I know there were 2 other sections with AR stuff in them. In the last year alone hundreds of AR suitable molds were sold in group buys. Some things will grow if they are allowed.As I pointed out.....the thread count just isn't there. Address this point, please. Powder coating is a subject the forum needs to address to keep its "hand in" in terms of information. This site will never be seen as the font of information on whether your LaRue tactical additions are the best thing for your AR.....best to keep the information cast bullet related as this is the area of expertise here. If you want pure AR discussion and better advice about AR's, go to something like m4carbine.net.
As for M4Carine and AR15 sites. It is obvious you have never spent any amount of time on either. Good luck getting any kind of cast info out of those places or post and get hammered.
Last edited by dkf; 10-28-2014 at 10:39 AM.
I am of the thought that to leave it in the military rifle section. If I want an AR section only, then I will go to ARFCOM (AR15.com)
You'd think that as firearm owners you'd not want civilian market ARs to be associated w/ their military counterparts. The media loves to play this up and everyone gets mad when they do it. I have little interest in ARs even though I built one. I do tend to read the threads about them. But I don't think I've even been to the paper patch or coatings forums. Pretty sure the AR market is a lot larger then both combined.
I spend considerable time on M4carbine.net. As I pointed out, if you want pure AR discussion and better information about AR's that is where to go. They are ignorant about cast bullets, agreed.
However......the AR/cast bullet issue is a really, really slow one. Really slow. This site needs a tie in to cast bullets, not a bunch of guys asking about tactical rails for which they're better off going elsewhere. Thus the moderators get to judge whether the topic count is gonna really be a tie in to cast bullets or a junior attempt at making an AR "cast bullet" forum into something mostly about equipment. Obviously this site is not about that.
The post count is really going to be low about cast bullets in AR's. Past evidence to that effect is ample. Tell me this.....why shouldn't the SKS have its own "cast bullet" subforum? They're popular too. For a while there everyone had one, and still has one, because they're cheap.
Why not post your own stickies in the military rifle forum about AR's and cast if you think a central source is lacking? Make it your own. Embrace the fact that it is in fact a military rifle.
It would also be helpful to note no other model of rifle has its own subforum here. You're asking for special treatment.
It all makes sense now.... Thanks for taking the bait.I spend considerable time on M4carbine.net.
I actually have been saying there is an obvious issue. I never came out and said ARs should have a dedicated forum. Your reading comprehension is horrid at best. But it is what I expect from someone whoms sole purpose here is an argument. But what else is new.It would also be helpful to note no other model of rifle has its own subforum here. You're asking for special treatment.
Last edited by dkf; 10-28-2014 at 10:45 PM.
Sorry. Don't feel "baited." I don't ask for separate AR forums here as the title of this thread implies. I don't argue for their consolidation along different lines that suit my personal agenda, nor do I claim that the existing forums are poorly organized. Not a relevant point, so the feeling that' you've "scored" is yours alone. Can't see I've helped you make any "point."
I seem to find what I need here just fine, including cast in AR's as I have read threads here about the topic sufficient to guide me better than any other site I have found on the internet......by far. I am not a rocket scientist. Make of that what you will to counterpoint your claims that you have a hard time finding anything.
"I never came out and said AR's should have a dedicated forum."
Yet....you said this:
"Sorry I fail to see how it makes much sense to throw in modern semi auto rifles in with war relic bolt guns well over 100 years old."
Sounds an awful lot like asking for a dedicated forum along all new lines given AR's fit that definition. Others here have asked for that dedicated forum.....so that point is as much about them as it is about you, given the title of this thread. But you seem to have their sympathies to a considerable degree in your arguments, so if the shoe fits......
The fact that the site does not have a forum dedicated to a particular rifle model and sticks to categories was a point well worth making for this reason. It points out a conflict that the premise of the thread must be aligned with.
Also sounds like you feel that a "military rifle" section as exists here is a mistake. Since you're asking for both new forums made along new lines (that just happen to fit the preferences of a AR shooter who admits he came to this site ((post 52)) looking for cast bullet info and moulds) and the elimination of a quite long running and well attended forum........good luck with that.
To get what you want, it helps to avoid suggesting the successful forum divisions here are ill considered. Considerable past and current posting on this "poorly considered" forum implies that many find them adequate, and find what they need.
Since further argument is pointless due to the fact that moderators and the powers that be here will make the decisions that suit them in how to guide this site in the direction it needs to go, whatever needs to be said has been said.
Several moderators have spoken. You can decide which way they'll go if you want the exercise. I'm done with it.
35 Remington has expressed points that I would have addressed, but he did it much better than whatever effort I might have made.
I am 100% in agreement with his stance.
I also think that anyone who believes an AR is NOT a "military rifle" is splitting semantic hairs.
There's no real need for a division of the information on this website into sub-groups for each rifle design, and the info specific to the AR-15 and its cousins/brothers is a few keystrokes away in "Search" (if one can't be bothered to read thread titles)..
My vote was cast (remember, 'way back at the beginning of the thread?) against the specific sub-forum for the AR series of rifles. There are many types of "military rifles" in my safe, including the AR-15, and I have no difficulty finding whatever discussions and data may exist here for each of the rifle types I own.
This topic is truly "much ado about nothing".... can we talk about RIFLES, and not minor administrative matters?
Regards from BruceB in Nevada
"The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen
I can't believe how difficult it is to incorporate any change into this site. The poll for a dedicated AR forum now is at 77% in favor of one but the moderators still insist that there is no interest in one. I for one don't believe the AR is a service rifle, any more than a 1911 is still a service pistol. This site can be searched for CAST IN AR RIFLE topics and they're gathered from several places, instead of one.
Of these three pages, there are so many exaggerations to defend the absence of an AR forum but pure logic to defend it's presence. I don't get it. Instead of the moderators considering what the members want, they're telling the members what they don't need. Bias is one of the things that plague this forum. Everyone has an opinion and I just offered mine.
Interesting, the NRA and CMP consider the AR15 to be service rifles. Even stranger yet the 1911 is still the most commonly shot handgun in the CMP matches. Huh, what do they know.
What the mods are looking at isn't the interest of a few members but rather what is best for the forum as a whole. The idea of an optics forum was shot down in the past. The goal is to not have so many sub forums that nothing can be found.
The poll means nothing, how many people voted? I didn't, and I would have said no. Ever think that those who voted are largely those who are interested?
You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.
FLHTC, you don't find the statement of fact that there is no other forum on this site dedicated to a particular rifle model to be relevant to the discussion? Is this an exaggeration? Not pure logic?
I'd wonder why not, if you don't.
Bruce is right. I (we) should be talking about something else. The tea leaves have drifted; they just need to be read.
Last edited by 35remington; 10-29-2014 at 08:03 AM.
The poll means nothing. Precisely the point. So because the 1911 is shot in Civilian Marksmanship Program matches, all 1911's service pistols? Is everything built on a Mauser 98 action a service rifle too?
I never said all were an exaggeration, I said many. I hope the other replies weren't as poorly read as mine. There is an obvious difference of opinion on the desire for the forum but it's also obvious how the outcome is leaning, regardless of how many would like to see it. The AR sub-forum isn't the only thing to be shot down here, simply because the round table doesn't deem it necessary.
No, a Mauser isn't recognized as a service rifle by the CMP at all.
Are all 1911s a service pistol? No, and the differences are all cosmetic.
Think about it, you are arguing for a different forum based solely on cosmetic differences. What is next, a new forum for stainless handguns? Wood stocked rifles only?
I will say that I bet many feel quite comfortable posting in the military rifle forum about their sporterized military arms. Wonder why?
You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.
FLHTC, the fact that there is no forum representing a specific model of rifle on this site is one you (they) are gonna have an awful hard time getting past. Evenhandedness means.......no special treatment. The bell may toll for you (them) as well. The "roundtable" is suggesting that is more than fair, as most would likely expect.
If a response was not what you wanted....maybe the post was poorly written, not read.
35,
What spawned my reaction was my visit to the poll, then reading the comments here. There was reference to another forum and how posts constantly are moved to the correct location. That error will happen, regardless of the topic being discussed. Another response was an adamant "No we don't need it". I began to ask myself who "We" were. Not every model of firearm is worthy of a specific forum but there are some that are. Thompson Center comes to mind. I find that particular firearm having it's own forum, along with other single shot firearms of a different manufacturer, on the same site. I'm not saying how this forum should be run like any other, I am just pointing out how forum members don't all think alike but it seems here, they must. The Ruger 10/22 is another semi automatic rifle that although a rimfire, took off like a bat out of hell and created it's own following. There are entire industries that grew from that rifle and while not a service rifle, it still earned a place away from every other rimfire rifle made, and certainly not due to cosmetics.
An entire generation of new shooters is growing up with the Ar-15 and variants. This is not unlike the transition to the bolt action in the early 1900's. All of the lever guys decried the soul-less new approach to deer hunting. I am in neither of these camps. In the past couple of years I have become interested in Ar's and find the atmosphere in places like Ar-15.com to be tiresome at best.
When those new Ar-15 owners look around the net for information on everything AR, what will they find here? It would take a bit of digging to ferret out threads of interest to them, not because they aren't here, but because they aren't organized. If they visited the site and saw a subforum labeled "Ar-15" they might just stay a while. Judging from the whining and moaning from a very few of the old curmudgeons here, they would just as soon not see those new shooters here. I would also expect that it would make the moderators' jobs more difficult, as some of these young folk haven't learned to be civil in their discourse yet. The powers that be need to decide if this site's purpose is to bring new casters into the fold and inform the masses, or remain comfortably small where a group of casters discuss esoteric details that are often meaningful and interesting to but a few. I believe they tried to do both, with the "Team Boolits" discussion and trading sections, but old habits are hard to break, and those sections are pretty dead.
In the end, we are guests here, so whatever the owner/moderators decide is what will happen.
"Is all this REALLY necessary?"
You're also asking them to open the floodgates. Why not a model 70, 700, 870, 94, 336, SKS, AK 1911, Glock etc forums as well. After all, we can bring zillions of new Glock shooters here convincing them they really CAN shoot cast through Glock barrels! A new forum is just what is needed to spread the word!
The moderators and site owners here would view the balkanization of this site with the same enthusiasm as a ninth grader has for his freshman literature class.
This site is quite large, the biggest cast bullet site on the net. Small does not apply to it. That draws 'em in already. A potential or current cast bullet shooter already knows it exists. A google search makes it spring right up. Fear not....it is prospering now.
Last edited by 35remington; 10-29-2014 at 11:54 AM.
I think a seperate sub forum would be greatly appreciated. I know that since I have started looking for information on cast in ars it has been a needle in a haystack trying to find seperate information. But it appears to me that this conversation is the same as banging our heads on the wall, as it has been in the past.
If the majority is against this idea, then those of us that are interested will have to find our information/discussions elsewhere. Which is possible, and generally the way the world works. It would be great if it was 80 degrees all year round where I live, but that's not gonna happen so we all deal with it, or move to florida!
“To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.”― Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote