45 ACP feeding problems

[bcr]

Have you used any pin gages and measured the throats? You can get a single .4520ZM gage from Meyer Gage for less than $4 and use it to check barrel throats. It's one thing to look in the bore and see a throat, which is just freebore, but how big is it? This is the part that needs to be a tad over boolit diameter for it to reliably plunk test loaded ammo, AND to reliably go into battery with that ammo.

You shouldn't be forced to seat flush with the case mouth, as this lessens the COA measurement, which the longer it is, usually helps feeding, the shorter it is, the easier it is to experience jams.

DougGuy,

I don't understand what it is your suggesting I measure, can you describe the measurement a little bit more?

Thanks!

[bcr]

The mouth diameter is 0.472".

COL is 1.220".

The cartridges drop dead flush with the barrel hood on the 1911. They are just a hair below the level of the barrel hood on the Smiths.

[OptimusPanda]

I had trouble like that with a 1911 and the lee 200g lwsc I had them loaded so the front driving band was just peeking out from the case mouth. Id get a failure to feed one or twice a mag. Loaded them longer to 1.25 and the problem went away..

[Char-Gar]

How can a fellow get the proper taper crimp on a round where the bullet shoulder is flush with the case mouth? I don't do that. I think that might cause some feeding issues, but I have never tried it, so I really don't know. In fact I don't know anybody that does that. I can think of no reason to load a round that short with the raw edges of the case mouth exposed. Those edges are going to drag on the chamber as the round transitions from the magazine to full battery in the chamber. It could be enough to interfere with the slide momentum. You might get by with this in a rattle-trap military gun, but not a good commercial auto-pistol.

I surmise that the OP is not taper crimping his rounds from the look of the pic and the fact that a proper tapered crimp would produce a case mouth of .468 - .470. The statement he makes that his using the Lee FCD and using the least crimp he can get by with tells me he does not understand the function of the crimp on the 45 ACP round. He needs to loose that Lee die and get a decent taper crimp die.

The purpose of the crimp is threefold , first to insure a smooth round that feeds well and does not drag on the case mouth, to ensure proper combustion of the powder and to keep the bullet where it belongs.

I have loaded over 1/4 million cast bullet rounds over the past 40 years for the 1911 pistol in 45 ACP and it is not difficult at all to get 100% reliability from the ammo. The firearm and magazines may present other issues, but there are no secrets about the ammo. However there are some basics that must not be forgotten and I think the OP is missing one or more of them.

Seat that bullet out so there is enough bullet body to get a proper taper crimp and load it with enough of the right powder to produce pressure in the range for which the pistol was designed and there should be no problems, unless the pistol is not properly sprung or has other issues. Most mechanical issues come from folks thinking they just must make some modifications to the pistol. Unless there is a manufacturing defect, autopistols for the 45 ACP come from the factory needing no modifications. Of course dirty pistols will sooner or later give problems.

Sub-Machine guns, have no feed ramps. The bolt slams the round from the magazine straight into the chamber and therefore they can take some pretty crappy ammo. However the autopistol tilt the round up as it leaves the magazine, slides it up the feed ramp and straightens it out before the slide slams in into battery. This out-up-over needs to be considered with ammo for the autopistol and the crimp plays an important part is this ballet of motion.

[tomme boy]

Load a couple so that there is a little bit of lead sticking out on the shoulder. I like to tell people the thinkness of your fingernail. Also try to close down the crimp to 0.470"-0.471" your barrel might just need a little more crimp.

Can you get a really good pic of the throat of each barrel? That will also help to see if what was brought up about the reamer. Look at the stickied post about throating above.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Jeez! I put the pic up in post #4 for a reason. This is my go to 45 ACP reload. It is now using a real H&G 68 clone from a brass Mihec mold. I loaded it for 20 years using a 6-cav LEE with the same set up.

I have used this cartridge in CZ,S&W, HK, Ruger,and to many 1911's to count! Never had a problem! I do use a "real" RCBS taper crimp die though!

[Char-Gar]

Taper crimp with a taper crimp die, not FCD and take the mouth to about .466-.467 as needed
to drop all the way. If it is a real H&G 68 set LOA to 1.250 to 1.260.

No or inadequate taper crimp is THE most common problem of failure to close on .45 ACP.


Bill

Yep that be true. The only thing I would add is I use a factory or USGI loaded round to set my taper crimp die and that produces a case mouth of .469 - .470.

As mentioned above, I have loaded lots and lots of ammo for the 45 autopistol and they have all been sized .452. I have never found that .001 larger or smaller has ever had any effect on reliable function.

[Char-Gar]

Hi,
Jeez! I put the pic up in post #4 for a reason. This is my go to 45 ACP reload. It is now using a real H&G 68 clone from a brass Mihec mold. I loaded it for 20 years using a 6-cav LEE with the same set up.

I have used this cartridge in CZ,S&W, HK, Ruger,and to many 1911's to count! Never had a problem! I do use a "real" RCBS taper crimp die though!

Yep, dat be da way to do it!

[Boogieman]

Lee still sells a taper crimp die , not the FCD die . I quit using my FCD when I found it was sizing the boolits in the case leaving them loose in the case with only the crimp holding them. The old Lee taper crimp die works fine for me.

[bcr]

Lee still sells a taper crimp die , not the FCD die . I quit using my FCD when I found it was sizing the boolits in the case leaving them loose in the case with only the crimp holding them. The old Lee taper crimp die works fine for me.

This is why I was trying to use a light crimp, because they are light loads and I don't want to size the boolits. I guess I will try a taper crimp die.

[RobS]

The Lee 45 ACP factory crimp die is a taper crimp die the thing that I as well as many others don't like is the carbide ring at the mouth of the die. This can create a few different problems ranging from swaged boolits due to the post sizing from the ring and the issue of potential loosening of the taper crimp as the boolits runs back through the carbide ring as the round exits the die. I didn't ever take note to the later of the two but others have noted this issue however the post sizing of the 45 acp die (I've had two) does in fact swage boolits.

Here's a good one though, the particular Lee factory crimp die in 45 Colt that I own, the carbide ring is just fine for boolits .454" and under meaning the die doesn't swage down on a boolit at those diameters.

[tomme boy]

If you already have the Lee FCD, pry out the carbide ring and use the die as the crimp die.

[Char-Gar]

This is why I was trying to use a light crimp, because they are light loads and I don't want to size the boolits. I guess I will try a taper crimp die.

As I started above, the purpose of a crimp has more to do with function than holding the bullet in place.

I don't know what you consider to be a "light load", but these pistols are designed and set up to run with 230 grain bullets traveling 850 fps. Use a lighter load and a lighter bullet and you are asking for function problems.

The Hensley and Gibbs 68 and it various clones is one of the best bullets for the 45 ACP round, when loaded correctly of course. It delivers the same level of accuracy at 900 fps as it does at 700 fps. Target shooters ran it slow to reduce recoil which aid them in controlling the pistol for accurate paper punching. But their pistols were set up and sprung different to function at the lower level of slide momentum.

When run at 850 fps, this bullet still delivers sterling accuracy, plus make an excellent field and defense load. Running them slower won't prolong the life of your pistol in any significant way.

If you will seat the bullet out, so the case mouth can get a good taper crimp on the body and load it to 850 fps, you won't be back here with more function issues in your pistols.

As a bonus, here is how to adjust your new 45 ACP taper crimp die. I have both RCBS and Lyman dies for this purpose and they both work fine. Here is how;

1. Using a factory loaded round in the shell holder run the ram up as far as it will go.
2. Screw the taper crimp round down on the factory round as hard as you can, using only hand pressure and no tools.
3. With the pressure still on the die, set the lock ring and you are good to go. You will now have a taper crimp on the mouth that measures the same as factory ammo, which will be .469 - .470.

[bcr]

Thanks I am learning a lot, that's why I asked!

[Char-Gar]

Thanks I am learning a lot, that's why I asked!

We all learn by asking, reading, watching or by trial and error. Asking and reading provides the quickest results.

The 45 ACP round and the autopistol have been around now for over 100 years and folks have been handloading cast bullet for the round and pistol for just as long. This combination comes from the same period of time, more or less, as did the flying machine and the horseless carriage.

For generations it was the "service pistol" and matches were designed around it. Billions of round have been loaded by various factories and arsenals over the period with at least the same number of handloads being produced in home shops. The bottom line is there are no secrets or undiscovered ways of making the round and the pistol work together to produce good results.

The round and pistol is still very popular today and many new shooters are taking it up, but lack the history of how to do it right. The net results is lots of folks are trying to reinvent the wheel with very mixed results. We see them show up on this board with regularity, trying to figure out what they are doing wrong.

Now, here is a gratuitous rant on the subject, that is not aimed at you, so don't take it personal, but it will make me feel better to say it, to wit;

There is money to be made selling reloading dies, tools and all sorts of parts and improved gizmos to make these pistols do better, or so the propaganda says. One guys spends his money and think he is better off, so he starts to trumpet this wonderful new way of doing it, and so the snowball rolls down the hill. Often all a fellow gets for his money is poor function and frustration and he wonders why? The purveyors of such things, all to often, are just preying on the uninformed and the gullible.

When folks come to the internet with issues related to the round and the pistol, what he gets is often the blind leading the blind with folks parroting what they have read or heard from somebody else. All to often they lack the deep personal experience to separate the wheat from the chaff, and the cycle of misinformation and frustration continues.

Again, this is not aimed at you dear OP/bcr, just just me venting my spleen on my own set of frustrations.

All the best and good shooting...Charles Graff

[KYCaster]

The mouth diameter is 0.472".

COL is 1.220".

The cartridges drop dead flush with the barrel hood on the 1911. They are just a hair below the level of the barrel hood on the Smiths.

OAL is too short and not enough crimp.....you haven't even straightened out the flair.

If the Lee FCD is the solution to your problem, you don't understand how to load handgun ammo.

Jerry

[beroen]

Sounds like this is a pretty popular boolet. If you get your die adjusted right is it possible to seat and crimp in one step with these?

Just seems a matter of adjusting the seater and die in conjunction with each other.
Is it just a adjustment issue and using 2 dies makes that easier?

If you pull out the collar in a lee FCD. does it act like a taper crimp die?

[Char-Gar]

Sounds like this is a pretty popular boolet. If you get your die adjusted right is it possible to seat and crimp in one step with these?

Just seems a matter of adjusting the seater and die in conjunction with each other.
Is it just a adjustment issue and using 2 dies makes that easier?

If you pull out the collar in a lee FCD. does it act like a taper crimp die?

If the case mouth is to be roll crimped into a generous crimp groove on the bullet, it is entirely possible to seat and crimp with one die in one step.

However this bullet does not have a crimp die and seating and crimping in two separate operations will give the best results.

I know nothing about a Lee Factory Crimp die, so I can't comment on that question.

[tomme boy]

I seat and crimp in one die and have zero problems.

[gtgeorge]

I shoot about 500 of these every month for several years and will say the advice on the OAL 1.25, taper crimp at .470 and a .452 #68 clone just plain works in every 1911 I have tried them in.