A bit of that is the way sound carries though. Sombody ealier stated that a short barrel is louder than a longer barrel. Not true at all the vent is just farther from the operator and seems louder. The soundwave produced by PCP and the sound wave produced in the 30-65L PSI range are very different.
Back off 200y and listen to both if you want to see what I mean, add trees and there ya go!
Originally Posted by 1845greyhounds
The major difference between the noise from a long and short barrel is the muzzle blast caused by incomplete powder burn in the barrel.....
Classic example of this difference.....
30-06 with a 20 vs 24" barrel...
Shoot them both in the evening - and the 20" barrel model will be a fire-breather... HUGE muzzle blast... Shooting 5' + fireballs... Where the 24" barrel only blasts out maybe a 1 or 2 foot fireball...
One of the keys... Both with a "can" and with "Quiet shooting".....
You want the powder burn to be nearly complete within the barrel... Why? If you are running a can - the unburnt powder fouls up the can.... If you are "Quiet shooting" - the unburnt powder makes huge muzzle blast.....
So.. You end up going with "Fast for caliber" powders..... It makes a big difference in the "Blast"....
Thanks
I dont agree its a major difference of noise. Definitely of flash! The longer burn time and the larger the chamber to burn in the quieter the load but the ecsaping gass and bullet breaking the sound barrier are making the noise. Same as with a can the larger chamber along with baffels for noise cancelation quiet the gas release. But a supersonic bullet will still make lots of noise. I've lit off large amounts of powder on teh ground..just poofs. Even firecrackers need the paper tension to build pressue for the crack.
Plenty of loads burn 100% within 16-18" of barrel thats a matter if efficentcy. Burning in open air gives an unlimited chamber to burn so sound is less.
10 mm, sub-sonic, bolt action gun or locked semi-auto, silencer, camo, gilley suit, stealth, for social stuff at close range (200 yards or less)
NRA Benefactor 2004USAF RET 1971-95
You're over thinking it, or missing something. Muzzle pressure is lower in a longer barrel for a given load, whether the powder gases have completely burned or not; this translates directly to less noise. You may not be able to tell the difference with your hunting rifles, but it's pretty obvious when comparing something like .22 rifles with different barrel lengths, or most suppressed guns.
Yes bigger chamber less muzzle pressure, and longer burn time. Time after complete burn is making it quieter due to increased chamber size.
.22s are a great example since most ammo is 100% efficient in a 12" barrel. Anything longer is quieter due to time in barrel. But in lots of .22 auto short barrel pistols main springs are very weak to cycle the slide or have a smaller slide to move. Less pressure from the short barrel. But it's 2' closer to the shooter then a 20" full stocked rifle.
Up up close the difference seems obvious pistols are louder but at a distance your perception changes.
This has turned into an awesome thread. Had a pile of work this week and need to catch up.
I do have a bow that a friend gave me, but I know nothing about them. Need to learn it. I think it's compound, as it has pulleys and I heard it go "Pop" on day and the line broke while it was hanging in the shop... lol. I think it's a "York" brand if that means anything.
Definitely want a 300 Blackout Upper too.
I haven't heard anything about York bows in quite a while. Like since the 80s. I believe they have been out of business for some time. If the string-pop didn't cause any limb damage, you could probably get it re-strung at an archery shop cheaply.
Boone and Crockett Club member
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Pope & Young Club member
I think one needs to check the local ordinances about shooting (bow, slingshot, anything) near structures, roads, etc. I think of 'stealth' as not spooking the target, not noise suppression. Reason? Several years ago I had the GKs out in the woods for a walk (private property), during season. Bang. Now I know it's time to be careful. Bullets don't only go 50 yds. I understand 'pest' eradication with quiet loads under controlled environment but don't trust the majority of hunters. Not sure I could trust most at the local range. Not speaking of anyone on this forum, of course.
Whatever!
You think guns should be loud so people can do what? Duck?
Do you use a muffler on your car? Why not also on your rifle?
I can assure you when a bullet comes through the tree leaves close to you, you hear it way before the boom.
In theory, it sounds plausible, but in real life - it doesn't work out as you say. Burning powder in piles on the ground has nothing to do with a superheated, high pressure, supersonic column of partially burned powder as it hits the air....
Try it out for yourself... Sound is far from less with longer barrels and faster burning powders. Here's a good example...
30-06 with a 168g bullet...
2 loads, nearly the same velocity...
46 grains of IMR 4895
53 grains of IMR 4320
another example is the "Metro-extension" you can get for a shotgun... Makes the shotgun blast sound like a kid's pop gun....
That 30-06 4320 load will clear all the benches around you at the range - while the 4895 load doesn't really "Scare" folks as badly....
Tell me which one "Kicks" harder? Which one "Blasts" more?
One of my strategies for good "Hunting" loads was to find loads that tend to "Blast" less... It makes a difference - especially when hunting in dim forests and at dusk/dawn... That huge muzzle flash can temporarily blind you... but it's also significantly harder on the ears....
A funny story about those 30-06 loads....
I was testing out a variety of loads... and that 4320 load really does shoot well... I was out at the range - and a ROTC guy shows up from the local college with his pistol... He's all Hoo-Rah... Takes up the bench on my left... Proceeds to dump about 15 rounds of 9mm down the back of my shirt... I mention this to him.. Offer to switch benches... "No, man, I am OK..." Then - dumps another 15 rounds down the back of my shirt.... and that 9mm brass is HOT...
I wait till he gets ready to dump another mag of hot brass down my shirt... Right as he is about to pull the trigger.... I let go of 3 rounds out of that '06 with cases full of that slow burning powder as quick as I can fire them off....
That dude was under the bench faster than I have ever seen anybody move....
Then - he apologized for all the brass down my shirt... Packed up his junk and left.
This is almost a 6 year old thread, but I'm interested in quiet hunting with my firearms and loads. Specially now as I'm in an area where I can hunt in wilderness (abundant in game) surrounding an isolated but rather large home development, but I really don't want to attract needless attention.
Taking a look at your collection- with what you have to work with on hand, what would you use?
Would like to add (Without) a suppressor, but by other means such as calibers, loads, etc.
Small to moderate loads of Red Dot have been noticibly quieter for me with no other changes.
You know those old time tin whistles that had a rod and a ring sticking out the far end? As you blew and pulled the rod it changed the pitch.
10 grains of Red Dot below a 310 gr cast boolit with gas check sounded like that but faster. No "Bang" but you could hear the bullet going down the barrel. Hear the pitch change. But it was real quick, and quiet. And those 300 grain bullets stacked up real nice.
3.5 gr of Red Dot in a .223rem below a 55 gr bullet is also vastly quieter than factory. Still has a bit of a pop to it, but they were slow enough so the boolit was staying below sound barrier. Inside 100 yards it was minute of squirrel head accurate. Aimed for the eye they would have all been 1 shot kills in the head.
Might need to go back and play around some more with that load, try a few with gas checks just to see what happens.
Awesome, I've got a good selection of 22 cal molds even some heavies and I will try some experiments. Thinking of what I got on hand, it's going to be 45-70 on one end and .223 on the other. Wish I had a 22 hornet.
Maybe play with my 22 lovell.
Actually 5gr cfe pistol under most anything just makes a pop in BO. 100gr is faster than 185gr.
Whatever!
I still have my old Radio Shack SPL meter..
Purpose-built "Blooper Bunny Gun" by John Taylor. H&R small frame .44 single-shot action. Green Mountain "Gunsmith Special" 9mm barrel 20 inches long, with 1:10" twist (fast twist is IMPORTANT!). Chambered in .38 S&W with rook rifle-type throat (3 degrees Basic, or 6 degrees included angle from .363" major diameter ahead of case mouth chamfer from .388" case mouth diameter) to press tapered nose of Accurate 36-240H heavy, flatnosed 240-grain bullet to ENGRAVE in rifling as breech is closed.
With 3 grains AutoComp, chronographs 720 fps. VERY uniform velocity!
Penetrates through EIGHT 1-gallon water jugs, NO tumbling, straight through like a laser!
Inch groups with simple open sights at 25 yards.
Gun weighs only 4-1/2 pounds.
Mild report like .22 LR, so I don't use a can, but if you did it would be silent and deadly.
Attachment 260435Attachment 260436Attachment 260437Attachment 260438Attachment 260439Attachment 260440Attachment 260441
It is also possible to build one in .455 MkII using the Starline brass and a 1:16" twist barrel to stabilize the Accurate 45-290H (295-grains in 1:40 tin-lead) bullet at 700 fps from a 20-inch barrel with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. A small powder capacity and heavy bullet relative to the caliber are advantages for these specialized loads.
Last edited by Outpost75; 04-22-2020 at 06:00 PM.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
A pistol caliber carbine (16" bbl) with a heavy subsonic round is your best bet without a suppressor. And a 44 or 45 would be best at least for deer. Small game just use a subsonic .22 rf.
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