youth rifles for recoil sensitive kid (deer to elk)

[Love Life]

If .243 is what you plan to use then bullet selection will be the name of the game with a leaning towards the heavier and better constructed.

Your emphasis on the value of shot placement is spot on. I'd rather hunt with a person toting a .243 who can shoot it very well than hunt with the typical hunter who gets 3 out of 10 shots on his 8 inch paper plate at 100 yds and proudly declares "Good enough for dear!!".

I have a bit of load data for heavy .243 bullets (jacketed) and if you can stand the machismo, the Snipers Hide also has a hunting section with a wealth of information. If you would like my data notes then just PM me.

What barrel twist will your rifle be?

The .243 is an extremely accurate cartridge and I enjoy it immensely.

[flounderman]

I have a choice of multiple rifles, in about any caliber, and I been using a .260 I built on a 722 action with a stainless Model 7, or Mountain barrel. Essentially a Model 7 in .260. The recoil isn't bad and it doesn't destroy as much meat as most calibers. I have never found the .243 to not be plenty of gun for deer of any size. If you shoot them in the back half, it doesn't matter what you are shooting. Shot placement is what counts. If you need to find a box of ammunition in a store, the .243 is a caliber that should, be there. You can load a lighter bullet in the .243 and reduce the powder charge to reduce the recoil. You can take a wood stock, remove the recoil pad-buttplate, and drill two holes for dowels. Then cut the stock to the right length and install another buttplate. Later, when the boy grows, you can insert the dowels and glue the stock back to the original length. If you do this on a longer barrel rifle it will be muzzle heavy. Something like the Model 7 with the light barrel will still balance.

[Artful]

So, I also think the 243 is a good choice for recoil sensitive shooters. Plus it shoots flat so you don't have to know much about trajectory data.

But you can step up in caliber or make the lightweight rifle more friendly by putting the correct stock dimensions for the shooter on it, it's not just for shotguns.


having a GOOD recoil pad,
http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/stock-forend-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-pads/limbsaver-recoil-pad-prod13194.aspx?ctl00$ucheaderSearch$btnSubmitSearc h=Search

Mercury recoil reducer - making sure the balance if the firearm is still good.
http://www.brownells.com/items/recoil-reducer.aspx

And if you can stand the noise a recoil taming muzzle brake
http://www.fieldandstream.com/articl...manly-thing-do
Otherwise if legal for hunting a suppressor/silencer which also reduces felt recoil.

Placement is key but bullet construction is also a large factor especially in a larger animal like an Elk. Some J-words with good rep's are

Barnes TSX,
100 grain Remington Corelokts
Nosler 100gr Partition,
95 Grain Nosler BT
Swift 90gr Scirocco

[koehlerrk]

Got a second stock for my Marlin 1894 in 38/357 and cut it down to a 12 inch LOP so it fits my daughter. Mounted a Sims Limbsaver on the end and she's perfectly happy blasting full house 357s out of it all day long. But, the fact that she could start with 38s and work up helped her build familiarity and confidence that made her believe she could handle a 357. She can't wait to go hunting in four weeks.

So, what I've learned about youth rifles:

1. Fit - if it doesn't fit them, no level of recoil will be comfortable.
2. Pad - buy the best recoil pad you can find.
3. Cartridge - don't go crazy, it's much better to use a moderate cartridge they can shoot well than a high power one they can't control.
4. Time - give them time to get used to it. Too much and they'll flinch and won't want to shoot anymore.

[C. Latch]

As a deer cartridge I am head over heels in love with my 6.8SPC AR-15.

With 110-grain Accubonds at anything inside of 200 yards I'd be comfortable with it on elk, though, obviously a bigger, faster bullet would leave more room for error.

[psweigle]

You might find this helpful.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hr-cent...#msg1098406584

I would say everything above the 45 colt is a potential.
First number is lbs of recoil, second is foot pounds of energy on target.

357 Magnum 3.4 912
223 Remington 3.6 1272
22-250 Remington 5.5 1623
7.62x39mm 7.3 1496
44 Magnum 7.5 1298
357 Maximum 8.3 1723
30-30 Winchester 8.6 1577
243 Winchester 8.6 1978
45 Colt 8.7 1537
38-55 Winchester 10.4 1418
25-06 Remington 12.0 2228
7mm-08 Remington 14.5 2460
445 SuperMag 15.4 2236
270 Winchester 15.7 2588
280 Remington 15.8 2504
308 Winchester 16.7 2680
30-06 Springfield 20.6 2968
444 Marlin 25.1 2652
35 Whelen 26.8 3211
338-06 27.1 3471
45-70 Govt I 27.5 2317
500 S&W Magnum 33.4 3403
405 Winchester 33.4 3182
450 Marlin 37.6 3321
45-120 Sharps 37.6 2822
45-70 Govt II 40.8 3417
45-70 Govt III 44.6 3923


If it was me, I'd start him out with a Handi Rifle in .357. Start him shooting with 38 special rounds, as those are softer yet, and half the price.
When he is ready move him up to the .357 mag loads. Those should reach to 150 yards IMO.

When he is ready to move up I'd look long and hard at the .44 mag, or ream the .357 barrel to .357 max. Either should take virtually anything that gets close enough. So then it is up to the hunter to learn how to get close.

By the time he needs something that reaches more than 200 yards he'll have grown enough to be able to handle the recoil.

Like your son I didn't not get along with recoil, I did end up buying a .243, and over time I learned to be deadly on varmints with it.
Deer, well those experiences were not as good.

Start him out with Handi Rifle around 300$ and give him some years to grow.

And let me add that no matter what other people say, the 357 will kill a deer with no problem. Just my two cents worth. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[TCLouis]

7-08

Load it down with boolits for practice and then do what one needs to do for deer. First thing is he needs to get used to the rifle and will get over the recoil as he gets comfortable with the gun. The 7MM Soup Can may well just be the ticket for deer also.

I put some through a gallon milk jug at 50 yards today launched by the 7 mm TCU and I think it will stop or at least slow a deer. Phone books are soaking, but from wht the boolits looked like that I recovered behind the milk jugs I tink they will work.

Boolits out of the 7mm TCU, 7.7X58, 357 Rifle, 30-06 and 338 Mag as well as bullets out of the 257 Roberts are on the agenda for this week.
Data and pics will be posted as it unfolds.

[Blammer]

243 winchester in a Ruger American would be a good choice.

a 7-08 Win in a Ruger American would also be a good choice.

I have found that the 7-08 in the Ruger American is a really soft shooting rifle. It has a really nice fat rubber recoil pad and works well.

For Elk, the 7mm should be good.

Make sure he has a good jacket on and the recoil pad is thick and soft and that will go a long way in reducing felt recoil.

I was hunting in CO this past week and the locals who I hunted with, both of his sons (13 and 16 yrs old) hunted with a 270 and they were good for the job.

[NVScouter]

I went with .308 for my wife. First year was the 125g NBT loaded at a MV of only 2400fps. Cupcake load for any shooter with plenty of deer punch. This year she stepped up to the 150g Hornady Interlock at 2500fps, more recoil, about 60% the kick of my .308 165 @2750fps. She has an elk tag so I tested the bullet at 1500-2300fps impact velocity. It does best impacting between 1700-2300fps. So its a 300y elk bullet at best, and within 200 for likely pass through. At 1800 fps the bullet was about .39 caliber c145g with 18" mix media penitration. Over 2300fps its in the .70 caliber range and sheds 40-60% mass an 15-22" mix media pentration.

The Ruger Preditor in 6.5CM would be ideal with a 140g bonded however for light kicking deer/elk rifle. Buy an compact stock and fit the barrel (its larger but not by much) or modify the stock. A 6.5 140 with out penitrate the 7mm and .308 in the same velocity range. Any of these light loads I wouldnt expect a DRT but a short tracking job if hit right and not pushed.

There is also the 7mm-08 and a heavy construction 120-140. I cannot recomend a .243 for elk.

You could also stick with a GMX style 140/150 bullet for the same results.

[NVScouter]

Well? get one or do you need to come to Wyoming next year?

243 winchester in a Ruger American would be a good choice.

a 7-08 Win in a Ruger American would also be a good choice.

I have found that the 7-08 in the Ruger American is a really soft shooting rifle. It has a really nice fat rubber recoil pad and works well.

For Elk, the 7mm should be good.

Make sure he has a good jacket on and the recoil pad is thick and soft and that will go a long way in reducing felt recoil.

I was hunting in CO this past week and the locals who I hunted with, both of his sons (13 and 16 yrs old) hunted with a 270 and they were good for the job.

[NVScouter]

Friend of mine just put a 120g sierra through a 3X4 muley both shoulders two weeks ago. 140y in a 14" 7TCU. Not an issue.

7-08

Load it down with boolits for practice and then do what one needs to do for deer. First thing is he needs to get used to the rifle and will get over the recoil as he gets comfortable with the gun. The 7MM Soup Can may well just be the ticket for deer also.

I put some through a gallon milk jug at 50 yards today launched by the 7 mm TCU and I think it will stop or at least slow a deer. Phone books are soaking, but from wht the boolits looked like that I recovered behind the milk jugs I tink they will work.

Boolits out of the 7mm TCU, 7.7X58, 357 Rifle, 30-06 and 338 Mag as well as bullets out of the 257 Roberts are on the agenda for this week.
Data and pics will be posted as it unfolds.

[xacex]

The 6.5 Grendel will work fine for what you are looking for. Several elk have been taken with it some out to over 400 yards. Another good choice would be the 260 Remington. I would stay away from the 243 if you intend on elk hunting with it. the .264 would be a minimum bore I would use, but I do know people who use 25-06 on them up here so go figure.

[richhodg66]

When my oldest boy started deer hunting, I got him a Remington Model 7 in .260. Mild recoil, plenty accurate enough and kills deer very well with handloads. I'd highly recommend the .260 as a deer round for anybody.

My younger son shoots left handed. When he was 11 or 12, the only maker who had a youth, left handed rifle was Savage and they made it in .243, 7mm-08 and .308. The .308 was what I was set up to load for and Hogdon had a youth loads section which recommended a 125 grain bullet and 37 grains of H4895. Very accurate, very mild, kills deer as well as anything at the ranges we shot them at.

If it were me, I'd get a .308 and use the above stated load. It worked equally well with 130 grain bullets and IMR 4895.

[357Mag]

DH -

Howdy !



Savage " Factory CLassic " in .250-3000 .


With regards,
357Mag

[starmac]

Finally someone mentioned the 250/3000 the 257 roberts has always done the job too. A rifle that fits, makes a lot of difference, no matter the caliber.

[Bigslug]

If he's only eight years old. . .it's pretty hard to up-caliber for someone that small. I'd be looking for .243 and shooting the heaviest Barnes solid coppers (which penetrate wonderfully) that will stabilize. That's all you'd need for deer. Elk? I wouldn't let him shoot an elk until he's at least big enough to handle a quarter himself. I get that you love your son, but dead elk are HEAVY - someone else's dead elk is even HEAVIER!

The Ruger 77 Hawkeye Compact would be a decent choice in that Ruger's classic stock geometry has always been of the high, straight comb variety. This will put the shoulder more in line with the bore and take some of the sting out.

You could do a .260 Rem or 7mm-08 and install mercury recoil reducers and a bodacious pad like a Decellerator or Limbsaver. I'm not a muzzle brake fan personally, but they're an option. Then you'd have something a little more reasonable for larger critters.

[454PB]

I went through this same decision process last August when my grandson turned 12. In Montana, you can't hunt big game until the age of 12. I wanted to buy his first hunting rifle, his Dad was leaning towards a .243, but I thought he should have something with more power "potential" for Elk. Having killed a few Elk, I couldn't recommend a .243. A 243 is a great Deer rifle, but too light for Elk.

The end result was I bought a Ruger American Compact in .308 Win. and loaded a bunch of light bullets at lower velocity for the initial shooting. He soon graduated to more recoil via heavier bullets and higher velocity. He is comfortable with the rifle, and hunting results follow soon.

[fast ronnie]

a relatively inexpensive rifle that is easy on recoil, easy on brass, and easy to load for is an old mauser 93 (7 x 57 mauser)that has been (sporterized) i have one that has been shortened and the stock cut down being shaped like a more modern rifle. These rifles were pressure tested to 43000 (if I remember correctly) brass is easily formed from .30-06 by shortening and necking down, .270 winchester by shortening and necking up, or you can buy brass pretty easily. If you do chosse to resize cases, they need to be annealed before using the sizing die. Before I annealing, I lost 50% of the cases, after annealing, none. The rifle shoots very well, but I found mine does not shoot 139 grain hornadys. The target looked like I was patterning a shotgun. Mine likes 145 speers as well as some of the heavier bullets. pull length is a little short for me, but would be great for a smaller person. Because of being a lower pressure gun, i always load to minimum charges shown in the handbooks, never more. I was originally disappointed in this rifle, but have ended up shooting it more than any others I have AFTER I found a load it liked.

[bubba.50]

a T/C White Mountain Carbine with 180gr semi-wadcutters in an easy-load sabot. start out at whatever grain powder load suits him & work him up to huntin' loads by next season.

[NavyVet1959]

Some people describe a .45-70 as more of a 'push' than a 'kick' when shooting the milder loads. There's a lot to be said for going with one of the H&R rifles and getting multiple barrels for it. Just remember -- as a reloader, you can make ANY round mild if you really want to.