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Thread: Which cast boolit weight for cat sneeze 30-30 loads?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    I always load up a few "squirrel poppers" and keep them handy ... a 0.310 round ball in a case with 2 grains of Clays, then dip it in LLA after loading the round. Super quiet, the ball hitting the target is louder than the report of firing. But I think the questions you're asking were best answered by Mr. Ed Harris.

    Cast Bullet Basics For Military Surplus Rifles
    By C.E. Harris Rev. 9-6-93

    Cast bullet loads usually give a more useful zero at practical
    field ranges with military battle sights than do full power
    loads. Nothing is more frustrating than a military rifle that
    shoots a foot high at a hundred yards with surplus ammo when the
    sight is as low as it will go!

    Do NOT use inert fillers (Dacron or kapok) to take up the excess
    empty space in the case. This was once common practice, but it
    raises chamber pressure and under certain conditions contributes
    to chamber ringing. If a particular load will not work well
    without a filler, the powder is not suitable for those conditions
    of loading.

    Four load classifications from Mattern (1932) cover all uses for
    the cast bullet military rifle. I worked up equivalent charges
    to obtain the desired velocity ranges with modern powders, which
    provide a sound basis for loading cast bullets in any post-1898
    military rifle from 7 mm to 8 mm:

    1. 125-gr., plainbased "small game/gallery"
    900-1000 f.p.s., 5 grains of Bullseye or equivalent.

    2. 150-gr. plainbased "100-yd. target/small game",
    1050-1250 f.p.s., 7 grs. of Bullseye or equivalent.

    3. 150-180-gr. gaschecked "200-yard target"
    1500-1600 f.p.s., 16 grs. of #2400 or equivalent.

    4. 180-200-gr. gaschecked "deer/600-yard target"
    1750-1850 f.p.s., 26 grs. of RL-7 or equivalent.

    None of these loads are maximum when used in full-sized rifle
    cases such as the .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65 Argentine, 7.7
    Jap, 7.62x54R or .30-'06. They can be used as basic load data in
    most modern military rifles of 7 mm or larger, with a standard-
    weight cast bullet for the caliber, such as 140-170 grains in the
    7x57, 150-180 grains in the .30 calibers, and 150-190 grains in
    the 8 mm. For bores smaller than 7 mm, consult published data.

    The "Small Game or Gallery" Load

    The 110-115-gr. bullets intended for the .30 carbine and .32-20
    Winc
    hester, such as the Lyman #311008, #311359 or #311316 are
    not as accurate as heavier ones like the #311291. There isn't a
    readily-available .30 cal. cast small game bullet of the proper
    125-130-gr. weight. LBT makes a 130-gr. flat-nosed, GC bullet
    for the .32 H&R Magnum which is ideal for this purpose. I
    recommend it highly, particularly if you own a .32 revolver!

    The "100-Yard Target and Small Game" Load

    I use Mattern's plainbased "100-yard target load" to use up my
    minor visual defect culls for offhand and rapid-fire 100-yard
    practice. I substitute my usual gaschecked bullets, but without
    the gascheck. I started doing this in 1963 with the Lyman
    #311291. Today I use the Lee .312-155-2R, or the similar tumble-
    lubed design TL.312-160-2R. Most of my rifle shooting is done
    with these two basic designs.

    Bullets I intend for plainbased loads are blunted using a
    flatnosed top punch in my lubricator, providing a 1/8" flat which
    makes them more effective on small game and clearly distinguishes
    them from my heavier gaschecked loads. This makes more sense to
    me than casting different bullets. Bullet preparation is easy.
    I visually inspect each run of bullets and throw those with gross
    defects into the scrap box for remelting. Bullets with minor
    visual defects are tumble-lubed in Lee Liquid Alox without
    sizing, and are used for plain-based plinkers. Bullets which are
    visually perfect are sorted into groups of +/- 0.5 grain used for
    200 yard matches. Gaschecks pressed onto their bases by hand
    prior running into the lubricator-sizer.

    For "gaschecked bullets loaded without the gascheck," for cases
    like the .303 British, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R Russian and .30-'06 I
    use 6-7 grains of almost any fast burning pistol powder,
    including, but not limited to Bullseye, W-W231, SR-7625, Green
    Dot, Red Dot, or 700-X. I have also had fine results with 8 to 9
    grains of medium burning rate pistol or shotgun powders, such as
    Unique, PB, Herco, or SR-4756 in any case of .303 British siz
    e or
    larger.

    In the 7.62x39 case use no more than 4 grains of the fast-burning
    powders mentioned, or 5 grains of the shotgun powders. These
    make accurate 50-yd. small game loads which let you operate the
    action manually and save your precious cases. These
    plinkers are more accurate than you can hold.

    Repeated reloading of rimless cases with very mild loads results
    in the primer blast shoving the shoulder back, unless flash holes
    are enlarged with a No.39 drill to 0.099" diameter. Cases which
    are so modified must NEVER be used with full-power loads! ALWAYS
    identify cases which are so modified by filing a deep groove
    across the rim with a file and label them clearly to prevent
    their inadvertent use. For this reason I prefer to do my
    plainbased practice shooting in rimmed cases like the .30-30,
    .30-40 rag, .303 British and 7.62x54R which maintain positive
    headspace on the rim and are not subject to this limitation.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    +1 on the TL 314-90-SWC sized .311" and pushed with 4 gr BE

  3. #23
    Boolit Master sthwestvictoria's Avatar
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    +2 on the Lee TL-314-90-SWC, sized .311 with 7.0grains Trail Boss. Useful to introduce new shooters. Despite being so short it loads fine in Win 1894 and Marlin 336. Emphatic kill on rabbits.
    I like this load so much that is it to the left in my avatar.
    ars longa, vita brevis

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
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    Of the powders you have on hand, I would start with Unique. If you are going to add a powder, I would add my support for Trail Boss, regardless of what bullet you are using. Hodgdon recommends filling the case to what would be the base of the seated bullet without ANY compression. That is MAX load. Reduce that load by 20% and that is your starting load. Work up from there if you want more velocity or want to see if more gives you better accuracy. Very mild recoil and no chance of double charging that is always the issue with fast pistol powders.

    Also, I would disregard the bullet diameter recommendation of the manual and slug the barrel of any rifle you get. It is a pretty easy process and will give you a much better starting point. There are instructions on how to slug, so will not go into it hear, but if you don't know or can't find, holler and someone will be glad to point you.

    Jackpine

    Jackpine

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy res45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmitty View Post
    +1 on the TL 314-90-SWC sized .311" and pushed with 4 gr BE
    I use the same bullet sized to .311" cast from PB with two light coats of Alox / JPW lube as well in my old Sav. 30-30 pump gun but with 3.5 grs. of Bullseye. Shoots pretty good with the irons out to 50 yds. velocity runs at around 1100 fps.


    Another load I like is the Lee 170 gr. RNFP shot as cast tumble lube with the gas check left off. I like 7.0 grs. of Red Dot with the plinker load.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedbugbilly View Post
    a Savage bolt action, a Marlin plus I'm still looking.
    I have a 325C Stevens bolt action in 30-30, it was the forerunner of the Savage 340. It is extremely accurate with cast up to 155 grains and the Williams aperture rear sight. I would like to try longer heavier boolits, but would have to seat too deep for my taste due to the limitations of the short detachable magazine unless I went SS.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master sthwestvictoria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackpine View Post
    If you are going to add a powder, I would add my support for Trail Boss, regardless of what bullet you are using. Hodgdon recommends filling the case to what would be the base of the seated bullet without ANY compression. That is MAX load. Reduce that load by 20% and that is your starting load. Work up from there if you want more velocity or want to see if more gives you better accuracy. Very mild recoil and no chance of double charging that is always the issue with fast pistol powders.

    Jackpine
    I would agree Trailboss is good for this however I would state the Hodgdon rule is to fill case to base of projectile then reduce to 70% of that load (multiply by 0.7) to arrive at a starting load:
    https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20...oads%20R&P.pdf
    ars longa, vita brevis

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Another good one is the old Ideal 3118 / Lyman 311008 mold.
    Runs somewhere in the 130 grains range...

    Run it behind a small charge of bullseye (I used a 22 short case for a dipper.. Charges are under 3 grains) ... *pop* like a kid's pop-cork gun... Will put a BIG smile on your face! Fun fun fun!

    If you are going to do much of this sort of thing - make up a set of cases with drilled out flash holes or you will constantly have backed out primers....

    Thanks

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy Quiettime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
    Mine might be closer to a dog fart than a cat sneeze.
    Bahahaha!

    Same for mine, I tried my NOE 247 grain boolits over 9 gr of Trail Boss (have to credit Wellfedirishman for the load) and that worked well. Very quiet, .22 mag recoil, and still a heck of a smack on steel targets. Maybe a little louder than ,22 LR subs.

    I also tried Unique with not-so-great results, leading and sharply increasing velocity.

    This is not to say unique will not work with lighter boolits, though I haven't tried them
    Last edited by Quiettime; 11-10-2014 at 08:52 PM.
    And just for your info... casting with a single cavity is about as close as you can get to zero production, while still having some production. -- Whitespider

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have good luck with Trail boss as well. I mostly use the lee dippers with it cause it meters poor for me. 8.6 grains of TB moved a 162 flat point PB boolit 1155 fps.

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Go to tbe GMDR web site for Cat Sneeze .30-30 data. About 3 grains of Bullseye or a .22LR case full with up to a 125-grain bullet or up to 6 grains (.32 ACP case full) for bullets from 125-160 grains.

    Accurate 31-155D is a good choice and its front end engraves like Eley Tenex in a Winchester 94 with slight effort using soft 1:40 tin/lead alloy and will shoot through both shoulders of a deer broadside at 1000 fps. with 5 grainsof Bullseye.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  12. #32
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    I like the 3118 or 311008, there is no need for a gc bullet with what you want to do. I also prefer a conventional lube groove. Ly cast bullet manuals 1-4 are full of recipes to do what you want to.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy robroy's Avatar
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    Just ordered the TL 314 90 SWC to use in my microgroove Marlin. Thanks for the info

  14. #34
    Boolit Bub
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    I tried .310 round ball, lubed Lee mule snot, 3.5 gr Bullseye, when .22 was unobtainable and I didn't want to shoot what I couldn't replace

    About as loud as a .22LR out of my Win 94
    Fair accuracy to 50 yds

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy three50seven's Avatar
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    I load a commercially cast 155gr FP over 8.5 grs of Trail Boss for approx. 1100 fps. Excellent accuracy out to 100yds using a Marlin 336 micro-groove fitted with a Williams peep sight.

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    100 grain Plinker (Cup Jacket with lead nose)
    IMR 4895 39.0 gr. 2,730 FPS
    IMR 3031 38.0 gr. 2,866
    Reloader 7 33.0 gr. 2,659
    2400 31.0 gr. 2,825
    Midway sells the bullets
    Regards
    John

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtphreak View Post
    I tried .310 round ball, lubed Lee mule snot, 3.5 gr Bullseye, when .22 was unobtainable and I didn't want to shoot what I couldn't replace

    About as loud as a .22LR out of my Win 94
    Fair accuracy to 50 yds
    I wonder what the OP means by cat sneeze loads. If quiet he needs a heavy for cal bullet like a 200 gr and light powder. If a light plinking load which is what I think he is saying this would work well.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check