Mold Suggestion for 30-30

[newton]

I know its been talked to ad nauseam, but time does make a difference with ones opinion. That's what I am looking for, opinions. Sure, I could get a few of each bullet from different molds, but in the end the difference between one shooting 1/2" one way or the other is not what matters to me. Not looking so much for an accurate bullet, if that makes sense. I do want one, but that's not what I am looking for.

I shoot a M94 Ranger. Been shooting Lee C309-170 out of it. Shoots real good, but I did notice something from the last two deer I shot. Not much of a blood trail. They died very quickly, and if it was not for me hearing where they crash then it would have taken more time searching for them. I believe it is due in part to the pretty small metaplate on the Lee bullet.

The bullet is fantastic. I shoot good groups with it, and will keep it around for the plinking loads. It sure is fun to shoot a squirrel with my 30-30 and that bullet moving at a .22 cal velocity. Lets just say they don't go anywhere. But I want something with a bigger frontal area to let the air out quicker in deer sized game. I also hunt in area's with hogs.

I am torn though. I see the Ranch Dog's updated version that NOE makes, the standard Lyman 311041, and the RCBS 30 180 which is where I am really leaning toward.

I like the idea of having that RCBS for a hunting round and it only has a tad less smaller metaplate than the Ranch Dog. Most people say it casts at 190+ with the GC and all. People also say it groups very good. But I am concerned with the length of it.

Then the Ranch Dog with its massive metaplate but it weighs a tad less.

Then the Lyman. Which really, its nice because of the extensive amount of load data for it and it seems to just be an all around good bullet.

I am stuck though. I can imagine that I will wind up with all three one day. I plan on getting each of my boys their own 30-30 as time comes so there will always be a need for good cast boolits. But I want to start with one right now. Besides, if I bought all three it would be tuff deciding which one to play with first.

So give me the ups and downs. Is there another mold I am over looking? Also, I am going elk hunting next fall. May be rifle hunting, but that's not been determined yet. Even though I know the 30-30 is somewhat looked down upon for anything larger than Deer, I know, and you all know, its fine for an elk at its given range. If I do go during rifle, and I have the itch to take my 30-30 instead of buying a new gun, would one boolit be better than another?

I know its all about shot placement and such. But weight would make a difference would it not? Is there any 30-30 elk hunters out there? Why the 30-30 you ask - well, it was my first rifle given to me by my dad who never hunted a day in his life. In fact none of my family did. But he saw my intense desire to be in the woods and I begged and pleaded with him to get me this gun. So it would mean a lot to go on a hunt that I have been dreaming of as much as I did all those years ago about that gun. And to be able to take along loads I made myself to boot. Yea, all of that would be well worth the effort to get a few hundred yards closer to the elk in order to get a good shot.

Hollow point molds? Are they worth a hoot in a 30-30?

Give me some talk here. I am open to it all. I have been researching it for a while now but want some fresh input. Sometimes internet opinions can become stale.

[snapshot]

Your lyman choice is tops you cant go wrong IMHO but many moons ago when I was just starting out I had the same problem with the tracking thats why I shoot 45/70 with a soft 405 grain lyman bullet 457193 at about 1600 fps this load blows a hole you can put your fist through and can follow that blood trail in the pouring down rain

[Doc Highwall]

The Ranch Dog has a good enough reputation that NOE makes a copy with regular grease grooves, That is where I would start.

[Shuz]

My vote is for the NOE 311165. Great and accurate boolit in my .30-30 Marlins.

[OverMax]

I prefer Iron molds verses aluminum or brass. That preference restricts what is available to me. So (as read) you OP use aluminum and because of that have a large array of molds & weights to pick from. Frankly: I don't see any reason to change from what you already use to some other mold. Why speculate when what you already have is {tried, true and works for you.} Going heavier in weight doesn't mean your new cast bullet will kill quicker or create a larger entrance or exit hole. Pure & simple the 30-30 has always been considered a marginal cartridge to use on big game.
As far as cast HP use in a 30-30 for deer hunting. I see little benefit gained.

[RickinTN]

Since you are having such good luck with the Lee 170 have Tom at Accurate molds make you a copy with the larger meplat you desire. I have found the nose diameter to be very important. I'm not sure what your Lee bullets are casting as far as nose diameter but I've had best luck with noses of .301" to .302" for slight engraving when chambered.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Sneakybuffalo]

Here's a neat article on just what you are asking if you haven't seen it already. http://www.castbullet.com/reload/meplat.htm

Also, if you are thinking of going the hollow point route, I'd just get the Lee C309 HP'd. I don't see the point of wasting ballistic coefficient on a wide meplat when a hollow point is designed to expand already.

[newton]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Truth be told, my Lee mold is wearing out. It was the very first mold I got and has seen the most use....and abuse. So it still works, but its on its last leg. I need a new mold regardless.

I know that I want a bigger metaplate regardless. One thing I did not mention is I also am curious how my gun would react to a bigger boolit also. I run the Lee's at .309". So I am going to get a .311" sizing die and need a mold that will cast at least that big. My Lee does not.

I am not sure how big the nose diameter is on them, I would have to measure them for sure. But I am pretty sure they ride and do not engrave at all. At least I have never seen engraving from ejected live rounds.

[newton]

Here's a neat article on just what you are asking if you haven't seen it already. http://www.castbullet.com/reload/meplat.htm

Also, if you are thinking of going the hollow point route, I'd just get the Lee C309 HP'd. I don't see the point of wasting ballistic coefficient on a wide meplat when a hollow point is designed to expand already.

Yes, I did see that article. That's what has me so torn. I was set on the Ranch Dog mold, but he does have a good point about the RCBS and that's really the article that had me second guessing everything.

[starmac]

I have and like the 311041. I have no experience with the others you are looking at, so sure can't say it is the best, but it works well enough for me.
As far as the 30/30 for elk, it sure wouldn't be my first choice and wouldn't go buy one with elk in mind, but if it is what I had, I would sure use it before staying at home. lol I did carry a 300 savage for elk a couple of years, because that is what I had. I didn't ever get a shot, but have carried a 30/30 on a short unplanned moose hunt, only saw one legal bull too far for a shot, but he was farther than I would have shot with a 300 mag too. So far I have never shot anything farther than what I would be confident with a 30/30, but there is always that chance that I would see a monster just pass my self imposed range. lol

[1Shirt]

Might also take a look at the NOE cy of the old Lyman 311440. Big meplat, durn near a 30 cal wad cutter. Paco Kelly touted it for years as a sledgehammer bullet.
Just got a 4 banger of it from NOE, and it is one of the finest casting 30's that I have ever seen. Out to 100, at 2200-2400 should be a barn burner. Also have 31141HP, and the original Ranch Dog. Think all of them would do you well.
1Shirt!

[Shuz]

1Shirt--What do the boolits cast from your NOE copy of the Lyman 311440 weigh? I have a 4C version from MP-Molds and mine is hollow pointed and weigh 152g cast from ww+1%tin. I've not tried mine as a solid yet, but maybe some day!

[jmort]

I have both a Ranch Dog Lee and the NOE version of the original, both with the TL grooves. What an amazing fantastic design. I agree with the author of the article linked:

"Ranch Dog bullet is the best overall. In fact, I consider it the best cast bullet ever designed for leveraction 30-30 rifles."

[rking22]

I like the NOE Ranch Dog, but it was designed with the Marlin throat in mind. May need to seat below the crimp groove to chamber, only way to know is to try one. I shot 2 deer with it last year, don't know about blood trail as I never looked, they fell in sight. The 31141 is a classic and definately works in the Win 94. I shot one with it year before last , dropped in her tracks, so again no blood train feel.I only run these about 1750fps and shots were under 60 yards with iron sights.Bullets were 50-50 PB and Lyman #2 water dropped (for convenince only). I have never used the RCBS but based on Junior's article, I would think about trying it. Turns that 30-30 into kinda a 303 Savage that had a good reputation for big game "in the day". That's due to your thoughts about elk, more bullet is a good thing, even if it's just a little more Opinion only, if you KNOW you will hold off on shooting beyond your limit,and he limit of the 30-30, I see no reason not to enjoy that experience. Getting close is what hunting is about fo me, really makes for memories of the hunt. And using that rifle, I would definately do that, culmination of a long held dream, with our Dad's gift in hand... YES

[newton]

That was one consideration about the Ranch Dog mold. It was really designed and mainly tested in the Marlin's. According to stuff I read, the "new" version NOE makes, with the regular lube grooves, is supposed to work good for Winchester's.

I had a guy PM me about a RCBS mold he has. If that works out then that might be my first go. I am keeping an eye on the Swappin section to see if a Ranch Dog comes through...but I am not keeping my hopes up.

I am not settled yet though. I am not going to be jumping the gun on this anytime soon. I figure by the end of this year, first of next(in time for winter tinkering) I'll have made my mind up. But, if good deals come past me I may find myself with multiple molds to play with. lol

I know its not looked good upon for elk. I get it. But it is what I have. I am really wanting to go during ML season, or Archery. But the guy I am going with likes to rifle hunt so that might be what I end up with. I only have iron sights, peep sight though, so an elk standing off past range is not going to be shot at anyways. I shot a deer a few years back at 125 yards and remember thinking about how small the thing looked in my sights. I am a pretty responsible hunter, and I do not mind(actually I like) getting close to my game. Partially why I like archery. I have seen enough to know that its not impossible to get up close and personal with elk. I get that its better to bring more than you need, but at what point do you stop? Are the guys who go out with traditional archery instead of big fancy compound bows ignorant or dumb for doing so?

For me, there are multiple reasons to take my 30-30. And the RCBS peeks my interest the most because it does fall under the "bring more than you need" category.

[Dan Cash]

Take your existing bullet, size it to .303 and patch it out to .312 and push it to 2000fps. Cast of soft lead (20:1), the wound is amazing and penetration is still there.

[newton]

Take your existing bullet, size it to .303 and patch it out to .312 and push it to 2000fps. Cast of soft lead (20:1), the wound is amazing and penetration is still there.

I have thought of this. In fact, which ever way I go I will try PP just to see what I can get out of her. I don't see why I couldn't get it up close to 2200 fps. But really, I am pushing it at 1950 fps as it stands. 50 fps doesn't sound like its going to make much of a difference in what I am seeing now.

[725]

311041 - hard to beat. RD's are top shelf if they fit your throat. I lean toward the 311041's.

[dualsport]

Lyman 311284. Check out the old Frank Marshall articles re. the B.O.W.M. (Bench or woods Marshall) This path is well trod.

[starmac]

Up close and personal, I don't know of any elk that would laugh at the 30/30. If you can find the thread from Larry Gibson on leverrolution powder. He tested several cast boolits including the rcbs and it makes some good reading, with actual performance tests.