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Thread: 45-70 crimp question

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    45-70 crimp question

    I was out working on my first cast bullets for my 45-70 and I ran into a problem. First off, the gun is a new 1895 SBL. The bullets I used were from my Accurate 460-415V powder coated and sized to .4595 My brass is once fired Remington, trimmed to 2.095. The problem I have is in the position of the crimp groove. If I seat to the groove, my OAL is 2.540. I tried to chamber these, and I could not. I could put some pressure on the lever and force it into the rifling. So I adjusted the length to 2.505 and now it chambers fine, but I am beyond my crimp groove. So what are my options? I remember reading somewhere that if crimping without a crimp die, getting a factory crimp die which applies a taper crimp is a better option than using the roll crimp with the RCBS die. Or should I just apply a roll crimp? I did try that, and if I held it upside-down and hit my bench with it, it didn't seem to move. However, when I got a 18 inch scrap piece of 1x1, I could drive it farther into the case. So should I just call that good enough, or what should I do?

  2. #2
    In Remembrance
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    In my limited loading experience for my 45/70 which is a bolt rifle, a firm crimp is needed to keep rounds in magazine from changing COAL due to recoil. If you can line up with crimp groove, fine. If you can not then crimp where needed to get seat depth correct. With cast boolits, roll crimping on driving band is quite acceptable. When using J word boolits, roll crimping in the crimp groove is desirable. To make things easier, Get a Lee factory crimp die. This will put a firm crimp where you want it, groove or no groove. It works on both cast and jacketed equally. I hope this sheds a little light for you. Iron Whittler

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    pworley1's Avatar
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    I use a factory crimp die and crimp them wherever needed for tube feeders.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    For sure get the crimp die.
    Money well spent for the 45-70.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master dh2's Avatar
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    what if you use Hornady LEVERevolution brass it is a bit shorter than standard spec. I use a redding die to crimp because it is shorter.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Lee factory crimp die is going to squish lead boolits down to "jacketed" size. I would steer clear of it. Just MHO.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  7. #7
    Boolit Master




    41 mag fan's Avatar
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    Waco is correct on using a FCD. It will size your casts down this deforming them and making them prone to inaccuracy and possibly leading the barrel. Sounds like a short throat, the same as my Browning 1886 had. You do have a few options here. Have you tried cycling a factory round? My Browning would cycle a factory just fine but not any of my casts. What I did though, and this is a word of caution, was to have my throat reamed out to accept the 425gr RFN.
    On the word of caution. .. make sure you have a reputable gunsmith, that you either know their reputation or they have very solid references. Mistake 1 on my part. .. the guy said he used to work for gander mtn... what he didn't tell me til it's been over a yr too late is he got fired for messing up to many guns.
    Mistake 2 is I should of done more in depth studying on throat reaming.
    What this Smith done was took my rifle. .. ran the reamer thru the chamber and took out a little at a time and cycled the round thru till it seated. .. he should of taken the barrel off put it in a lathe and reamed it that way.
    Or the other way was to use a Chamber reamer and perform the throat job that way..
    But if that's what you need to do, make sure you use a reputable smith... you don't want to end up like me. I've got a $1000.00+ rifle with a possible crooked throat that might be getting a new barrel. . depending on what this gunsmith professor I'm taking it to next week decides.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Shorten your case.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 725 View Post
    Shorten your case.
    That's the easy solution. You can even buy them shorter - thus turning a problem into an advantage!
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    The RCBS 45/405 GC was designed for the Marlin levergun in 45-70. It is superbly accurate and feeds through the action as slick as you please. Sometimes the easy way is just to buy a new mold!

    Most of the 45 cal rifle bullet molds around were designed with various single shot rifles in mind.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    If you use the crimp die as it is intended it should just crimp where the crimp ring is on the bullet.
    If the brass is shorter just adjust the die downward a little.
    I had to do this with some of the Hornaday brass.
    Been shooting a 325+- grain up to 2000,gas checked with no problems.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    So how short can I shorten the brass? Can I go down to 2.080?And will shorter brass not affect pressure? I will definitely start at the bottom and work up.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    I've used Remington brass for years. Loaded some of a friend's Hornady cases and couldn't get my Lyman seating die to crimp them at all. When the die's right down against the shell holder, the crimping ledge wouldn't touch the case mouths. The Lee Factory Crimp Die does have a section of the collet below the crimping edge that sizes the neck of the loaded round. Not a problem with jacketed bullets as it's sized for loaded rounds with them, but it can size down larger cast boolits. To avoid that, put the case mouth just into the top of the LCFD and operate it. It will only pinch the case mouth. That also works to crimp other cartridges you don't have a die for with similar neck diameters, and you can also use it to crimp on gas checks without sizing boolits.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    I've used Remington brass for years. Loaded some of a friend's Hornady cases and couldn't get my Lyman seating die to crimp them at all. When the die's right down against the shell holder, the crimping ledge wouldn't touch the case mouths. The Lee Factory Crimp Die does have a section of the collet below the crimping edge that sizes the neck of the loaded round. Not a problem with jacketed bullets as it's sized for loaded rounds with them, but it can size down larger cast boolits. To avoid that, put the case mouth just into the top of the LCFD and operate it. It will only pinch the case mouth. That also works to crimp other cartridges you don't have a die for with similar neck diameters, and you can also use it to crimp on gas checks without sizing boolits.
    Can you please expound upon this? clearly I'm missing a detail here. Are you saying to run the cartridge in nose-first from the top? I don't follow?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    Exactly.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Wow. Who'd a thunk it? Thank-you!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I'd suggest trying the Lee FCD with whatever 45-70 your are loading before jumping to conclusions or running blindly with posted suggestions. Looking at a Lee 45-70 FCD and running a Trapdoor fired cased (the largest chamber I have for comparison) into it from the bottom shows no evidence of the unnecessary neck sizing others are talking about. Plus, I seriously doubt you'll be using (or need to for that matter) seriously oversized bullets in a new rifle anyway. Plus how in the world is the depth and alignment controlled if holding and crimping from the top of a FCD?

    All dies including the Lee FCD have limitations as to specific application. For tube mag rifles that require a crimp, the roll crimp shoulder in the seater die works very well if adjusted correctly and the case length is consistent. Likewise the Lee FCD does well for most uses requiring a crimp and is less case length sensitive than the roll crimp shoulder.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expanman View Post
    Wow. Who'd a thunk it? Thank-you!
    You're welcome. Try it, you'll like it.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  19. #19
    Boolit Master stubert's Avatar
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    The factory crimp die for 45-70 does NOT resize the entire case. It uses a 3 jaw collet that only crimps the mouth of the case. However, the factory crimp dies in pistol calibers WILL resize the entire case, and swage the bullet down. Avoid them.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    Yes, the pistol and rifle factory crimp dies are two different animals.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check