Accuracy Expectations at 25 yards with cast bullets

[alexanderkidd]

Wondering what 'typical' groups are like from a handgun rest @ 25 yards?

Have been shooting a Vaquero and Blackhawk .38 special with my own various cast bullet loads. 4" groups is about the best I've been able to muster with cast bullets, and have no tried any jacketed loads. More typical is in the 6" range for groups. Seems like things could be better but I have no standard to judge by.

My 1911 will do 2-3" with cast bullet loads thus far, which seems acceptable to me given it's a homebrew bullet...

[Tatume]

One inch at 25 yards is typical from my revolvers. Some do much better, less than one half inch.

[alexanderkidd]

One inch at 25 yards is typical from my revolvers. Some do much better, less than one half inch.

Are you using a machine rest (Ransom) or just a 'normal' one?

[44man]

i never shoot less then 50 yards and many groups are down to 1/2" there and out to 100 yards.

[Thumbcocker]

In my expereince a person needs to know their ability with a known accurate gun and load. Then if you are doing your part and the gun and load are not doing their part you know where to start. I do my best shooting when I know that I am the weak link in the gun, load, shooter, system. If I get a gun that will not shoot well with a reasonable amount of load development or with known accurate laods and boolits, it goes down the road. Life is to short to mess with stubborn guns that won't shoot.

[220]

My stock 686 off sandbags at 25m is around 2" for 10 shots with most reasonable loads.
If I fit a 2x scope it shrinks groups to around 1.5" Im sure something like a ransom rest would probably bring it down to 1"

Regardless of if im shooting rifle or pistol I find a 22lr a great help, if I cant shoot a group with the loads/gun Im using I will grab a 22lr and shoot a few groups just to make sure it is the load/gun and not the shooter that is giving trouble.

[williamwaco]

Wondering what 'typical' groups are like from a handgun rest @ 25 yards?

Have been shooting a Vaquero and Blackhawk .38 special with my own various cast bullet loads. 4" groups is about the best I've been able to muster with cast bullets, and have no tried any jacketed loads. More typical is in the 6" range for groups. Seems like things could be better but I have no standard to judge by.

My 1911 will do 2-3" with cast bullet loads thus far, which seems acceptable to me given it's a homebrew bullet...

That is the best most people can do with any gun/load with factory sights.

If you scope it and put it on sandbags you should get around one to one and one half inch average for say five six shot groups. You will also find the your best group will be around half the size of your average group. So, if your average is 2.5", you will occasionally see a 1.25".

[alexanderkidd]

That is the best most people can do with any gun/load with factory sights.

If you scope it and put it on sandbags you should get around one to one and one half inch average for say five six shot groups. YOu will also find the your best group will be around half your average groups.

Yes, just the factory adjustable sights on the Blackhawk, fixed combat sights on the 1911, and gutter/blade sight on the Vaquero. Looks like I have some load development to do on the .38s!

[Thumbcocker]

I have found some .357's to be a bit temperamental especially with reduced loads. Using .357 brass generally gives better accuracy with .38 level loads than .38 brass. At least in my experience.

[Jupiter7]

Factory 4 5/8" Blackhawk with Lyman 454424 over 6.5grs bullseye will regularly print 2" freehand. I'm most consistent with this gun. My STI Eagle in .40 will do 1" groups from a rest with Mihec 190 and 5.6grs AA5.

[cbrick]

I'm not trying to be a smart a** so please don't take it that way, it's just that I have no way to know how much revolver experience you have. 6 inches at 25 yards is pretty poor and most any revolver with even mediocre loads should be able to do better.

It sounds very much like a shooter problem. That single action revolver is the most grip sensitive action type there is. If you change your grip on it in the slightest from the previous shot you have changed the point of impact. Work on your grip consistency and see if the groups don't get better.

Rick

[alexanderkidd]

I'm not trying to be a smart a** so please don't take it that way, it's just that I have no way to know how much revolver experience you have. 6 inches at 25 yards is pretty poor and most any revolver with even mediocre loads should be able to do better.

It sounds very much like a shooter problem. That single action revolver is the most grip sensitive action type there is. If you change your grip on it in the slightest from the previous shot you have changed the point of impact. Work on your grip consistency and see if the groups don't get better.

Rick

No offense taken. I have done a lot of Single Action Revolver shooting, but it's mostly been oriented towards action shooting (draw from holster, shoot pie plate at 10 yards, repeat). Shooting from a rest is new to me, hence trying to figure out if I have an ammunition problem or if something else is going wrong.

Groupings are much tighter with my auto, so I'm just trying to ascertain whether it's a load problem or my technique.

[dubber123]

I've been regularly getting 1" or less groups at my 26 yd. range, the longest I have available until my field gets mowed. This is with basically stock S&W's or F/A revolvers. Keep shooting, your groups will improve.

[white eagle]

Accuracy Expectations at 25 yards with cast bullets

Wondering what 'typical' groups are like from a handgun rest @ 25 yards?

couldn't tell ya I only shoot 50-100 yds at the range

[Tatume]

One inch at 25 yards is typical from my revolvers. Some do much better, less than one half inch.

Are you using a machine rest (Ransom) or just a 'normal' one?

Neither. I have a Ransom rest but I can easily out shoot it. Also, I've found that store bought pistol rests don't shoot true and can damage the gun, particularly the grip panels.

[rintinglen]

With out a machine rest, scope, or a keyboard, all of which combined serve to inordinately tighten groups, you can hope to average 2-3 inches at 25 yards.

You may do better, and the gun certainly should but that is not the average that you can expect. Sometimes, we here on the boards get a little too exuberant in our claims, remembering that one really good group, but ignoring the several other mediocre groups we shot before and after. 1 inch groups at 25 yards from a stock revolver not in a PROPERLY set up Ransom rest with iron sights is not a reasonable average to strive for.

[dubber123]

With out a machine rest, scope, or a keyboard, all of which combined serve to inordinately tighten groups, you can hope to average 2-3 inches at 25 yards.

You may do better, and the gun certainly should but that is not the average that you can expect. Sometimes, we here on the boards get a little too exuberant in our claims, remembering that one really good group, but ignoring the several other mediocre groups we shot before and after. 1 inch groups at 25 yards from a stock revolver not in a PROPERLY set up Ransom rest with iron sights is not a reasonable average to strive for.

I think any good quality revolver should hold 2" or less at 25 yds. after load development. Other than maybe my snubbies, I don't think I have any that won't meet that standard. Load development is important, not all boolit/bullets are created equal, and some of the old touted stand bys I find mediocre at best. I haven't been shooting too many different revolvers lately, only a S&W m14 and a F/A .357, but I don't think I have fired a 2+" group in a while. I believe most good quality guns are capable of that or better, it's up to the loader/shooter.

[cbrick]

With out a machine rest, scope, or a keyboard, all of which combined serve to inordinately tighten groups, you can hope to average 2-3 inches at 25 yards.

You may do better, and the gun certainly should but that is not the average that you can expect. Sometimes, we here on the boards get a little too exuberant in our claims, remembering that one really good group, but ignoring the several other mediocre groups we shot before and after. 1 inch groups at 25 yards from a stock revolver not in a PROPERLY set up Ransom rest with iron sights is not a reasonable average to strive for.

All that is probably true for some but it's a pretty poor blank across the board statement.

I can out shoot a ransom rest easily, I've never gotten good groups using one. Nor have I ever shrank my groups with a keyboard and it's insulting for someone that can't do it to insinuate that others can't either and if they say they do they did it only with a keyboard.

Rick

[**oneshot**]

I've not really noticed a difference with cast vs jacketed in my revolvers. Shooting a revolver off a rest is a learned art. I use a front rest to support the frame just ahead of the trigger guard. I rest my forearms right behind my wrists on sandbags. You yourself need to find the sweet spot for consistant angle/grip placement from shot to shot. Don't rest the butt of the gun on a sandbag as i will change POI from shot to shot. If you need to rest the rear to help keep steady, build yourself a steep angled support with a harder foam (I use dense inkstamper foam) for the part that contacts the butt. Only the leading edge of the butt should hit the foam. The steep angle allows the revolvers recoil to leave the rest and rotate in your hand like it should. I've tried the pistol rests that are sold as such but the angle isn't steep enough to allow the gun to be free after recoil starts.
Try a load you know is good, jacketed or cast and play with the rest positions to see what works.

[williamwaco]

I've not really noticed a difference with cast vs jacketed in my revolvers. Shooting a revolver off a rest is a learned art. I use a front rest to support the frame just ahead of the trigger guard. I rest my forearms right behind my wrists on sandbags. You yourself need to find the sweet spot for consistant angle/grip placement from shot to shot. Don't rest the butt of the gun on a sandbag as i will change POI from shot to shot. If you need to rest the rear to help keep steady, build yourself a steep angled support with a harder foam (I use dense inkstamper foam) for the part that contacts the butt. Only the leading edge of the butt should hit the foam. The steep angle allows the revolvers recoil to leave the rest and rotate in your hand like it should. I've tried the pistol rests that are sold as such but the angle isn't steep enough to allow the gun to be free after recoil starts.
Try a load you know is good, jacketed or cast and play with the rest positions to see what works.

You got Pix?