Black powder vs smokeless lube

[Mathew Quickly]

I just got a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps in 45 70, and loaded around 75 rounds of
405 gr lead,using 55 gr black powder.
After that, and before I've had the chance to try it out on the range, I was told
that the lead bullets I used were not meant for black powder, only smokeless.
The lube on the bullets in question is a kind of reddish color and not the tan I
see used on bullets usually associated with black powder loads.
Will the rounds I've already loaded using that reddish lube do any harm to my Sharps, or
is it just generally not the best lube for a black powder cartridge. I've shot a lot of black powder
in muzzle loaders but it's my first black powder cartridge gun.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.
M.Quickly

[Bullshop]

It wont hurt anything but you might have to wet wipe the barrel between shots or after a couple shots the fouling will be so hard if you can get another round to chamber you still wont be able to hit anything.

[Mathew Quickly]

Thanks. I'll give that a test with a few rounds and wet-wipe after each one. I've now gotten some Buffalo Arms hollow base bullets that have
the right black powder lube on them and I'll switch over to them.
Thanks again for the advice.
M.Q.

[Lumpy grits]

Smokeless lube and BP=mess to clean and nasty fouling.
LG

[dtknowles]

Lube choices. How well does Alox and beeswax work with black powder?

Tim

[Bullshop]

Thanks. I'll give that a test with a few rounds and wet-wipe after each one. I've now gotten some Buffalo Arms hollow base bullets that have
the right black powder lube on them and I'll switch over to them.
Thanks again for the advice.
M.Q.

MQ
In case you didn't know we have a custom casting service and can supply a variety of designs in all calibers in a variety of finished diameters as well as choice of lube for smokeless powder or black powder. Our black powder lube NASA lube is second to none in the industry.
BTW we also sell our boolit lubes separately.

[Bullshop]

Lube choices. How well does Alox and beeswax work with black powder?

Tim

Alox is a petroleum byproduct. As a general rule petroleum products do not do well with black powder. One major function of black powder lube is to keep the fouling soft and petroleum seems to hinder this function. Most black powder specific lubes steer clear of petroleum.

[Lumpy grits]

Lube choices. How well does Alox and beeswax work with black powder?

Tim

It don't--
LG

[Don McDowell]

Save some headache and get the lube for Bullshop, you'll be glad you did

[260rem]

Lube choices. How well does Alox and beeswax work with black powder?

Tim

I have tried this it sets to hard

[Lead Fred]

If the lube has petroleum in it, it will gum up your barrel.

Both my holy black and modern lubes have tow of the same things in it, and one different

Holy Black:
1 lb bee's wax (from Randy)
1 lb lard
8 oz cornola oil

Modern:
1 lb bee's wax
1 lb lard
8 oz STP oil treatment

['74 sharps]

Ultra easy and inexpensive to make your own with the basic ingredients being the beeswax, Crisco or lard, and some kind of vegetable oil. Making your own also gives the opportunity to adjust the mix according to the temperature conditions during shooting.

[Springfield]

Most petroleum products seem to leave hard carbon deposits when shot with black power. The exception to this is paraffin. And what exactly is cornola oil? Is it a mix of Canola oil and corn oil? I will second the recommendation for Nasa lube, it works great and even smells nice. Still haven't figured out what that scent is, sure seems like I have smelled it before, but is just doesn't click.

[John Boy]

is it just generally not the best lube for a black powder cartridge

Correct.
Petroleum products will leave a dry hard foul in the bore ... except for paraffin which is an alkane that mixes well with tallow & beeswax for a BPCR lube

[chuebner]

Get the bullshop NASA lube and you can use it for both black and smokeless. I also have a Pedersoli Sharps and Pedersoli rolling block and both only see BP and NASA lube as fodder.

charlie

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Gatofeo's #1 Lubricant, named after a black powder enthusiast that "rediscovered" (The recipe was last printed in a 1943 issue of the NRA American Rifleman magazine.) and posted it on several black powder forums, is an excellent and very easy to make black powder lubricant. I post below nothing more than a copy of his original post on several other forums and it may be on the muzzle loading section of this forum.

"Came from a 19th century bullet lubricant recipe that, when assembled with very specific ingredients, works exceedingly well with black powder. It must be made, as no one offers it commercially.

The recipe I posted – when made with the specific ingredients I list below -- equals or exceeds SPG, Lyman Black Powder Gold or other commercially made black powder lubricants and is cheaper to make than buying the commercial stuff.


Many have attested to its excellence on other message boards, particularly when soaked into 100% wool felt wads for use in cap and ball revolvers. It’s also a good bullet, patch and shotgun wad lubricant with black powder.


The recipe is:


1 part mutton tallow. I buy mine from Dixie Gun Works, which offers it again after months of unavailability. This is the toughest ingredient to find, but worth the search.
There’s something almost magical about mutton tallow. It doesn’t go rancid and it really keeps black powder fouling to a minimum.


1 part canning paraffin -- the same paraffin used to seal preserves in jars, sold at the grocery store in 1 lb. packages containing four slabs. Gulf is a common brand. Hardware stores with canning sections have it too.


1/2 part real beeswax -- Beware of today's toilet seals, which are not real beeswax but petroleum-based. Get real beeswax, not the synthetic stuff. Though hobby shops may carry small cakes of beeswax, it’s expensive. Your best bet to find it will be at “Mountain Man” Rendezvous, Renaissance Fairs and from local beekeepers.
Check the net for reasonably priced beeswax. I’ve also seen it offered occasionally, at a good price, on Ebay. Can’t find a local beekeeper? Call your county extension office in the government pages; they’ll have a handle on who rides herd on bees in your area.
Toilet seals haven’t been made from real beeswax for at least 10 years, near as I can tell, and perhaps much longer. Check the label, if it doesn’t say “beeswax” it’s almost certainly synthetic and should be avoided.


All parts are by weight, not volume!
I measure out 200/200/100 grams on a kitchen scale, toss the ingredients into a wide mouth Mason jar, and set the jar in 3 or four inches of boiling water for a double-boiler effect to melt it. When thoroughly melted, mix well with a clean stick or disposable chopstick, then allow to cool at room temperature.
Do not try to hasten cooling by placing the jar in the refrigerator, or the ingredients may separate.

The result is a medium hard lubricant that keeps black powder fouling soft and eliminates or reduces leading. No refrigeration is needed to store this lubricant; just tighten the lid on the jar and place it in a cool, dry place.
I have lubricant I made in 2002 that is still like-new, stored in a tightly sealed jar. Mutton tallow does not go rancid like other natural fats, or at least not as quickly. The mutton tallow I have on hand was purchased in 1998; it’s still good.


The above recipe is not quite invented by me. I found the ratios in a very old factory recipe that listed only “tallow, paraffin and beeswax.”
The Gatofeo No. 1 lubricant calls for very specific ingredients: mutton tallow, canning paraffin and real beeswax. Any deviation from these three specific ingredients results in an inferior lubricant.


Let me restate: Do NOT substitute lard, Crisco, old candles, deer tallow, bacon grease, bear fat, vaseline, synthetic beeswax or anything else – it won’t be as good as these three in combination. I know, because I’ve made small batches of variants and others have tried other ingredients, reporting back that the lubricant worked okay, but not as well.

To lubricate pistol and rifle wads or patches, melt a little lubricant in a tuna or cat food can at a very low temperature on the stove. Add the wads. Two tablespoons of lubricant will easily lubricate 100 .44-caliber wads. Stir the wads until they soak up plenty of lubricant. Turn off the stove and remove the can. Allow the lubricated wads to cool to room temperature. Snap a plastic pet food top (sold in the pet food aisle) over the can.


Write .44 Greased Wads (or whatever) on the side of the can with a wide marker. Store the can in a cool, dry place. You can easily bring the can to the range in your bag. When you get low on greased wads, simply place the can on the stove at very low heat, add more wads and lubricant, and recharge your stock.


The cans stack on top of each other on the shelf. The plastic lid keeps out dust and critters, and holds in the lubricant’s moisture. It’s a quick, easy, transportable system to make and use the greased felt wads. The same system can be used for unlubricated wads, small parts, balls, conical bullets or whatever you need to organize. Plastic, pet food lids are inexpensive. Check a Dollar Store or its equivalent for a good price.


Smaller quantities of greased wads are easily carried in Altoid sour candy tins or shoe polish tins. Both types have indents or keys to open the lid easily with greasy fingers, and that’s important. Trying to pry open a greasy lid with greasy fingers, without some lever or side-indent, is maddening.


Hinged tins are not as good, because moisture escapes around the cutout for the hinges. The Altoids sour candy or shoe polish tins seal tightly. Zip-Loc bags are also good for holding small amounts of wads (greased or dry) for the range but I most like the cans. They seal tighter and resist damage to their contents.


Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant is good for a variety of black powder applications. I also use it for heeled bullets in my Marlin Model 1892 in .32 Long Colt caliber, over small charges of smokeless powder, and in my .44-40 rifle bullets over black powder or smokeless powder.


Give Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant a try. I haven’t found anything better for lubricating the felt wads and Lee conical bullets in my cap and ball revolvers."

Note: The felt and wads material mentioned can be found here:

Wads - http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html

Sheep Tallow- http://www.durofelt.com/image_73.html

I bought two pounds of the sheep tallow and felt for use in my cap & ball revolver. Bought Gulf Wax at the grocery store and Beeswax on this forum.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I have made the Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant myself. Here's my original report of making it:

When I was ordering a 36X36" chunk of felt from Durofelt, I perused what they had for sale and noticed they carried mutton tallow in one pound increments at a reasonable price. Since here in the Southeast, Mutton fat is basically impossible to come by, I decided to go ahead and order some with my felt order.


When it came in, I weighed it on my postal scale and noticed it weighed right at 1.1 pounds. I had some beeswax I'd bought from a friend on another forum. He had it in half pound blocks that were just a shade over a half pound, just like the mutton tallow. Perfect for this mix.


I had also picked up some Gulf Wax while at the store with my wife picking up canning supplies. (She's whole hog into canning tomatoes, yellow tomato chutny and various types of salsa right now.) So I had all the ingredients necessary.


We had recently eaten a family side meal from Bojangles with some of our kids and grandkids, so we had several plastic containers from this my wife saved. (She's been quite good over the years, as she knows I use these to hold gun parts and other odd jobs.) They looked perfect for holding lube, so I grabbed two big ones and one small one. (Actually all we had.) I was now ready to make lube.


Put a larger pot with about half an inch of water on the stove and placed another pot inside. Don't ask me the sizes, I avoid cooking on the stove as much as possible. I placed the Gulf Wax (paraffin) and the Bees Wax in the pot and let it sit and slowly melt. We have an electric stove and the setting I used was 3, then I turned it back to 2 once the waxes were melted.


I was also in the process of putting a pork shoulder in my smoker, so this gave the waxes time to melt down slowly. The mutton tallow sold by Durofelt comes sealed in a plastic bag and the seal isn't right up against the tallow, so you can cut the seal off and have a lip to open the bag without getting mutton tallow all over your hands if you're careful.


I was careful and after peeling back the side, cut the bag a bit more, then eased the block of tallow into my melted wax nice and slow, being careful not to splash.


I used a stainless steel table knife to slowly turn the tallow, to begin it's melting process, then went back to setting up my pork shoulder. (adding chips to the smoker, adding some vinegar based bbq sauce to work as seasoning and tenderizer, then covering the pan with foil)


Once I was done with the pork shoulder, I came back and stired the melted components thoroughly, insuring a good mix, then poured them off into the containers. The lube I had made (2.5 pounds total) filled up one large Bojangles container, one small Bojangles container and I was left with enough to fill about 3/4" to 1" in the last container I had. Using a small canned meat can, I should be able to use that last bit to make my lubed wads by melting it and tossing the cut felt wads into the can.


Should be just the right amount for my first outing.


I'm well pleased with the lubricity and stiffness. Should be stiff enough a mixture to work in cast boolit lube grooves, but soft enough to swipe onto the cylinder before or after adding a ball. Can probably make lube pills with it as well.