high velocity with cast.

[tomme boy]

Goodsteel, No. Been dealing with a new pistol and health problems.

[45 2.1]

Do you know the title of the book? I'd like to get a hold of it.

Go here:
http://www.leverguns.com/backkupfirstpage.htm

Go down about 2/3 page, in center of page click: "ORDER PACO'S BOOK"

This site has a lot of informative reading...................................

[ballistim]

Go here:
http://www.leverguns.com/backkupfirstpage.htm

Go down about 2/3 page, in center of page click: "ORDER PACO'S BOOK"

This site has a lot of informative reading...................................

Thank-you! I've read some of his writings years ago in the "Sixgunner" newsletter of J.D. Jones & in fact an article by him is what made me get into casting in the first place.

[Nrut]

Popper,
How are you catching your fired bullets to see if they are bent?
Or are you going by the fliers you see on the target?

[TXGunNut]

the die is probably the most tricky part. for smaller bullets like .223 caliber, maybe a 20 ton jack would be enough.

American Rifleman had a nice article about Barnes awhile back but only a few hints about the nuts and bolts and equipment required for making copper bullets. But yes, it involves a very big press and very complex dies, apparently.

[runfiverun]

I guess I should stop in and see how they do it now that ATM owns them.
But back when they were doing them at home they were running CNC machines in the garage, sorting bullets in the kitchen and running the shipping dept. from the front room.
Oh I'm talking about the Barnes family.

[btroj]

Dang man, who don't you know?

Barnes makes a good bullet. Used a bunch overseas.

[runfiverun]

I lived in a good area as a kid in Utah, and got lucky when I moved here to Idaho.
i have had the fortune of hanging out with or meeting people that just happened to make a name for themselves in the gun world.
They were just guy's that happened to like the same things I did at the time. (Shrug)

It may have helped that I happened to win a few shooting trophy's over the years, and run a casting business for a while too..

[dtknowles]

I guess I should stop in and see how they do it now that ATM owns them.
But back when they were doing them at home they were running CNC machines in the garage, sorting bullets in the kitchen and running the shipping dept. from the front room.
Oh I'm talking about the Barnes family.

Who is ATM, do you mean ATK?

Tim

[runfiverun]

Yeah ATM (Atk) my phone won't let me put anything in how I type it.
Unless i do it 3 times.

[Yodogsandman]

So, now that things have slowed a bit on this thread, can someone please explain some more about the first inch or so of boolit travel. Boolit obturation and the forces that are applied and when along the boolits travel. I think I get static fit but, need some help with the dynamic fit.

[roadie]

So, now that things have slowed a bit on this thread a bit, can someone please explain some more about the first inch or so of boolit travel. Boolit obturation and the forces that are applies and when along the boolits travel. I think I get static fit but, need some help with the dynamic fit.

What I've gotten from the thread is that the right powder is needed to prevent/control deformation of the bullet. I think a too fast powder will hit the base too abruptly and possibly bend the bullet or deform the base. I think this is what riveting means...I could easily be wrong.

Can a too fast powder cause an angled base?

As to using a powder that is too slow, I'm not sure how that would apply to the first inch, it would affect the velocity possible if the case capacity isn't what it needs. And the powder selection depends on the chosen alloy, which depends on the needed characteristics of the bullet, as in target shooting or hunting.

I have no idea whether the twist will have a major affect in the first inch of travel, and I don't even want to go there as far as the rest of the bullet's flight goes.

I'm still in the dark about most of it, slowly seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, but I think the powder choice will affect the dynamic fit as in keeping the static fit as close as possible, while maintaining straightness.

[runfiverun]

Powder choice is used to move the boolit into the barrel gently then accelerate it down the barrel faster and faster through gas volume generation. (Pressure)
How far off the lands you set the boolit ( and the bhn ) can influence the powders speed.
Getting things straight is done through case fit.
You then don't have to oversize the boolit and fight riveting of the base.

[303Guy]

I have had boolits riveting between the case mouth and throat entrance. It remained visible because it was with paper patched boolits. The boolit was recoverable because it was with a small charge of fast powder, giving a reasonable pressure but with low muzzle velocity.

[TXGunNut]

Had a post awhile back about hunting applications for this endeavor. This tread has little to do with hunting, IMHO. Most hunting is easily accomplished with boolits under 2000fps, this is a whole 'nuther subject. I suppose if you're hunting mulies, sheep or antelope @ 200 yds plus this thread may have hunting applications for you. For me, this thread is as advertised; HV with cast boolits.
Bring on the range reports and data.
Rhetoric and theory has been well covered here, let's see some hard data.

[geargnasher]

So, now that things have slowed a bit on this thread, can someone please explain some more about the first inch or so of boolit travel. Boolit obturation and the forces that are applied and when along the boolits travel. I think I get static fit but, need some help with the dynamic fit.

Excellent question. There's a lot that goes on there, and exactly what goes on depends on a lot of things, but principally it boils down to how well your static fit is to begin with (nice, centered alignment accomplished with the brass), the rate and amount of pressure the powder puts on the bullet base, how the bullet shape does or does not jive with the throat shape as it first makes solid contact to self align, and how those shape relationships change as the pressure goes up and the bullet gets swaged through the throat.

Alloy composition has a lot to do with how straight the bullet will go into the bore as the metamorphosis takes place. A good bit of metal gets moved around as the bullet squeezes down to the confines of bore/groove, and that takes a lot of force, which is applied to the base by the powder, and the base at that point isn't supported so well and wants to go any which way but straight. We attempt to prevent bullet base deformation by selecting powders that build pressure slowly and combine them with a bullet made of metal which will easily "draw" in a straight line and not take so much pressure to engrave that the relatively unsupported base gets deformed in the process. The alloy has to be tough enough to guide off the leade to center at first, yet plastic enough to squeeze through the restriction without getting wadded up in the neck. That's the "dynamic" part, the metamorphosis of the bullet from its loaded shape to its fired shape, and the "fit" part is how the contact and pressure points between bullet and case and gun are manipulated and timed to achieve the support and guidance necessary for keeping the bullet always straight, always centered through that process.

So how do you pull it off? First, have good static fit, meaning the brass holds the bullet in line with the bore when chambered, and pointing straight ahead at the center of the muzzle crown. Make sure your bullet nose is the right size and taper to resist any mis-alignment during firing. Select a bullet shape that will funnel through the middle of the throat and leade without having any unsupported areas for metal to slump into unevenly. The nose and case neck only have limited strength to support the bullet before pressure rises enough to slam things sideways and obturate the case neck to the confines of the chamber neck, so you want most of the bullet to be supported well and straight by the throat before pressure gets too high. Bullet guidance is sort of handed off from the case neck to the part of the bullet contacting the throat, then to the whole bullet that's contacting land, groove, and throat, and finally just the land and groove contact as the bullet is fully engraved, so you need to use an alloy that engraves easily, a bullet shape that self-centers and is well-supported by the throat, and a powder that pushes in a way that doesn't just splatter the bullet base in all the wrong directions when the primer goes off.

Gear

[runfiverun]

TX.
I'm NOT typing theory I am telling you how I get the results I get.
You have to read what has been written and do it yourself if you want to see results.

Now i sound like Bob.

[btroj]

I have posted results. I haven't shot since then. Well, once but it was windy and cold so no real group shooting was done.

If you really want to learn then grab a rifle, cast some bullets, and go shoot. Run is right, much of what you need to know has been told. It is up to you to apply the knowledge and figure out what the rifle and target are telling you and how to fix it.

I learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting benches than I do online. That is one area every person in this thread will agree on. Fast twist or slow twist, it doesn't matter until you put lead thru paper.

So Tex, what HV shooting data do you have to share?

[ballistim]

I'm still watching here but unable to do much with arm in sling after surgery, appreciate the posted results, getting antsy with cabin fever, think I'll relax and spend the morning reading a nice peaceful thread again titled
" Milk Jug 300 Yard 6.5 Swede" ...

[btroj]

I thought you were signing off for a while......

There IS some good info in that thread, it is just full of bickering way beyond what you read here.