Citadel M1 carbine 9mm----Any Experience out there?

[tazman]

I read about a relatively new 9mm carbine being sold. It is the Citadel M1 carbine in 9mm made by Chiappa.
I have always liked the M1 carbine. I like how it handles and how it can be made to shoot.
I was interested in this one because it uses Beretta 92 pistol magazines which I happen to have.
I have read or looked at most of the reviews and videos I could find using Google.
There wasn't a lot of information out there about how well it shoots or how the trigger is. Just that it functions and has some plastic parts on it.
I would be interested in any information you have.

[Outpost75]

My buddy in Italy has one and likes it OK. His is 9 x21

[Shooter6br]

Have Mech Tech unit for 45 ACP Love it

[bruce drake]

http://www.legacysports.com/m-1-9mm-carbine
Interesting but for $700, I'd buy the 45 ACP Mech Tech unit for my 1911 and still have some cash leftover to buy a HiPoint 9mm Carbine

Bruce

[tazman]

http://www.legacysports.com/m-1-9mm-carbine
Interesting but for $700, I'd buy the 45 ACP Mech Tech unit for my 1911 and still have some cash leftover to buy a HiPoint 9mm Carbine

Bruce

I don't own a Glock or 1911 frame so that won't work for me.
On Gunbroker, prices are showing around $600 for the Citadel M1 carbine. I may be better off to get the Beretta CX4 in 9mm for the same money. I don't have any experience with that rifle either. I just prefer the look of the M1 carbine.
I was thinking of having the same cartridge and magazines for both a long and short gun.
A Kel Tek sub2000 for the Beretta mags would work as well for a lot less money, but they are impossible to find at the moment.

[garym1a2]

A CX4 is a much better gun than either option listed. Mine is very reliable, good accurcy and takes the 92 mags. Even the 30 rounder 92 mags. Plus its easy to setup for right or left eject.
While the shape and styling is very odd, it fits nice and shoots well.

P.S. is very reliable, just buy a 650 or 1050 to have enough ammo to feed it.

I don't own a Glock or 1911 frame so that won't work for me.
On Gunbroker, prices are showing around $600 for the Citadel M1 carbine. I may be better off to get the Beretta CX4 in 9mm for the same money. I don't have any experience with that rifle either. I just prefer the look of the M1 carbine.
I was thinking of having the same cartridge and magazines for both a long and short gun.
A Kel Tek sub2000 for the Beretta mags would work as well for a lot less money, but they are impossible to find at the moment.

[tazman]

A CX4 is a much better gun than either option listed. Mine is very reliable, good accurcy and takes the 92 mags. Even the 30 rounder 92 mags. Plus its easy to setup for right or left eject.
While the shape and styling is very odd, it fits nice and shoots well.

P.S. is very reliable, just buy a 650 or 1050 to have enough ammo to feed it.

How good is the trigger on the CX4? That has been the biggest fear I have for a 9mm semi auto.

[garym1a2]

Triggers is not as good as my AR, its also plastic as is the hammer. Their is a $200 aftermarket trigger if you need it. For me its fine. You can always dry fire one in a shop. I have ran it in carbine matches and it always runs well. Unlike the AR15 9mm that tend to have issues.

How good is the trigger on the CX4? That has been the biggest fear I have for a 9mm semi auto.

[beex215]

holy moly. this thread has so much so win. i was looking for something like this and its new. i didint know you could do that with a 1911 either. ill consider both.

[Tackleberry41]

I put a mechtech on a glock 40 cal. Really like it, tho wish they had a better way of mounting a stock to it. Your pretty limited on what they offer, and not easy to mount something else. It really screams for a folder vs M4 collapsable. I modded mine so a $30 surplus Uzi folding unit would work.

A friend had a storm for a long time, really liked it. Dont see the ambi thing being something even being a lefty I would worry about. His was an older one and had issues with mags, well high cap ones.

Not a bad idea making an M1 that uses 9mm. But maybe a different magazine, not sure what you would use, but something more M1 carbine.

I have a hi point and the down to those has always been the mag, they really need to come up with a reliable hi cap mag.

[tazman]

I have several 17 rnd mags for my pistol that should work just fine as since they work in my pistol. That's why I am thinking about these particular rifles.

[A pause for the COZ]

A couple have shown up on Gun Broker. I may end up getting one. But not at this price.
It would have to come down significantly. $365 would seem to be the right price point for this.
They would sell a butt load of them.
At $500+they are just going to give up after a year and think no one wanted one.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=446228349

[osteodoc08]

I've shot the cx4storm in the past and was considering it until I just ordered another AR from PSA for the same money. It's still on my to buy list one day. It's not as polished as a run of the mill AR. As mentioned it can be a bit "plasticky" but is reliable and boat load of fun. You can seriously go through some major round counts with one.

[jimkimmons]

I just bought one for $560 off Guns International, and I've done a review, as I couldn't really find any reviews online that said much. Here is the review at USGunTimes.com. Good and bad, but overall I'm glad I got it. Be careful about magazines though, as explained in the review.

[tazman]

Thanks for posting the review. Good information to have.

[tazman]

Well, I bought one at a gun show over the weekend. I only paid $450 new in box. The trigger is a little stiff but breaks cleanly. The rifle is very light and easily handled. I put about 200 rounds of various ammo through it Sunday afternoon.
Magazine performance was poor. After I got home I took them apart and found a lot of flashing on the followers that I needed to remove that may have been the cause of the mags feeding the cases poorly. That helped but I am not sure it will be a complete fix. My Beretta M9 mags worked better.
After about 50 rounds the rear sight began moving side to side and would not stay in place unless jammed against the left side. By keeping it there and checking position in between shots(a real pain) I was able to get some groups. The top of the receiver is grooved for 3/8 inch rings or mounts so getting some optics on it should cure the sight problem. I am thinking red dot or reflex sight.
This rifle doesn't like light weight bullets, yet at least. Groups with 115 and 124 grain loads were in the 3 inch range at 25 yards. When I switched to 147 grain loads everything came together. Groups shrunk to 1- 1.5 inches consistently.
I think I need to put a bunch more ammo through it and get it broke in and all the parts working together well before I give a final opinion. It seemed to work better as the afternoon went on and the ammo supply dwindled. It is a fun gun to shoot. I was hoping to get a consistent spot to place my blanket to catch the brass but this rifle throws brass everywhere. I had brass left side, right side, and on the table. I even had a couple of pieces in my shirt pocket.
Most of the ammo I put through it was cast, tumble lubed rounds I made for my 9mm pistol. There was no leading and the bore was shiny and clean when I finished shooting. This speaks to the quality of the machining of the bore on the rifle.
Changing the magazines turned out to be a real joy. The release button is on the right side of the magazine well. When you wrap yout left hand around the magazine your finger just naturally rests on the button making it simple get the mag out with no fuss. Putting a loaded one back in was just as easy. Slide it in and give it a light rap with your hand and you are good to go.
The action does NOT lock open after the last round which I wish was different but it wasn't a major problem.
I need to get some boolits powder coated and loaded up to put through it and see how it handles those.
I will post further when I get optics on the gun and shoot it some more.

[Multigunner]

Seems to me someone marketed a 9mm version of the M1 Carbine in the 60's and it never caught on then. I kind of doubt this newer effort will catch on either.
Basically its a far less powerful and less reliable cosmetic copy with nothing of the original mechanism carried over.

Hope those who bought it are not offended by my words, its just not a gun I'd be interested in even at half the price.

[tazman]

I understand. I just have a large supply of 9mm and none of 30 carbine. In my hands one is just as effective as the other.

[garym1a2]

9mm out of a 16 inch barrel has a lot more zip than out of a handgun and are just fine for self defence. Plus you can find ammo for it everywhere and brass is like dirt in many ranges.

I understand. I just have a large supply of 9mm and none of 30 carbine. In my hands one is just as effective as the other.

[Multigunner]

Some factory loads show a respectable uncrease in velocity with a carbine length barrel, but others show very little increase.
Heres a list with velocities measured in increasingly longer barrels.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

The Finns developed 9mm loads specifically for best velocity from the 12" barrel of the Soumi SMG. They used a slower burning powder to take full advantage of the longer bullet travel.
Because not all of the charge would burn in a handgun barrel before the bullet left the muzzle they found they could use the SMG ammo in their blowback pistols chambered for the 9mm Browning Long cartridge. Regular 9mm pistol ammo generated too high a pressure in pistol length barrels, those would have damaged a blowback operated handgun.

Since this is a reloading board I expect most here could build up some 9mm loads that would take full advantage of the longer barrel.

Some 1905 or 1907 Winchesters were converted to 9mm by the Cubans. It would be nice to see a repro of the old Winchester SLR rifles chambered for commonly available pistol cartridges. The 1907 Winchester was a little beefier so that would be a good place to start.