25/20 and high velocity with the Ranch Dog boolit

[runfiverun]

win 680 was THEEE powder for the 25-20 for a looong time.
it's 1680 now.
I'm using aa-2230 in mine, I started with a sr mag primer and kept on putting in more 2230 [starting with 1680 data] until the rifle acted like it was shooting flat out to 100 yds.
it'll knock over the 100 yd rams on the half scale silh shoots without any drama, and clips off rock-chucks [and a bird or two that umm was annoying me] out to 75 yds off hand easy nuff so I called it good.

[Bullshop]

For all to have this:

25-20
Ranch Dog bullets

Carolina Cast Bullets
P.O. Box 7755
North Augusta, SC 29861-7755

100 / $13.00
500 / $49.50

bullets shipped for USPS (small or medium)

Jerry

Thanks Jerry! Since your price is $.50 cheaper per 100 folks will be way better off buying from you. I guess its nice it turns out I was able to advertise for yours instead of my own business. Guess I'll just try to drum up some business in another caliber. Are there any that wont bother you if I do so? I would rather not tread on any toes trying to make my own living.

[Bullshop Junior]

Hi Jerry,
Hope you are doing well & getting better each day ...My Good Friend!.... Keep up all your work with your RD moulds... After all, you were the first caster to offer them to the public ( those that didn't buy moulds from Michael! )

???????

[Bullshop]

Wow almost seems like a conspiracy!
JWFilips and Jerry you can have this thread I am done here. I will start a new thread to advertise my wares.
Jerry I am sorry if I offended you by offering to sell some Ranch Dog bullets.
When Michael Ranch Dog sent me one of each of his mold to supply his customers with samples I was doing him a service. I was not aware that since Michael quit offering his molds I was supposed to stop offering that service.
If you want to discuss grandfather rights to selling boolits I guess I would win since I have been selling here on castboolits longer than any member.
No matter though you go right ahead and take this one over and I will go somewhere else.
I just didn't expect the rudeness from someone that asked us for help to get him going.

[leftiye]

Robert
Thank you for that data. It looks like I am in line with their work. It also looks like I was right about the industry established pressure difference between the 25/20 and the 218 Bee. I really don't understand why the difference because both cartridges have been traditionally loaded in the same types of actions and both are on the same case.

In the same gun,or one equally strong, there is no way the Bee's pressures wouldn't bee safe in the 25-20. Think of all the cartridges the Marlin 94 is chambered for that are both bigger diameter case head size, and run 40,000 or 50,000 psi.. Actually you only have to think .44 mag. .357 mag is the same headsize. One can do almost as they please, anything within reason with the 25-20 in the 94.

[JWFilips]

Wow almost seems like a conspiracy!
JWFilips and Jerry you can have this thread I am done here. I will start a new thread to advertise my wares.
Jerry I am sorry if I offended you by offering to sell some Ranch Dog bullets.
When Michael Ranch Dog sent me one of each of his mold to supply his customers with samples I was doing him a service. I was not aware that since Michael quit offering his molds I was supposed to stop offering that service.
If you want to discuss grandfather rights to selling boolits I guess I would win since I have been selling here on castboolits longer than any member.
No matter though you go right ahead and take this one over and I will go somewhere else.
I just didn't expect the rudeness from someone that asked us for help to get him going.

Hi Daniel,
I guess this is one of those times when the Emotionless "internet" messes up and make words sound wrong.
Please understand this was no disrespect to you.
Jerry has been recovering for a bad stroke so just to see him post here is amazing. I was only sending words of encouragement to him and I guess it didn't sound right you must have taken it the wrong way.

I'm very sorry I upset you or messed up your thread.
You have been so helpful to me over the past I would never do anything to change our friendship.
Please forgive me if I offended you.
Jim


I really do not know what the timetable was for rd boolits I just know a number of years ago I contacted Jerry and asked him if he would start casting .32 cal RD pistol bullets and he got one & did so

[Bullshop]

Forgiven Jim! I didn't know about Jerry's condition and I wish him the best too.

[DonH]

I too am a believer in that 680 load in .25-20. Not so long ago I had a Savage 23B and, tho I never seriously tried cast bullets in it, the rifle was very accurate with Hornady 60gr sp and 13gr WC680. Easily decapitated prairie dogs at up to 80-90 yards. I got the load from NRA reload handbook ca. 1970s. It is a fairly hot load.

[Bullshop]

DonH
Which of the 680 powders were you using? OOPS I see now it was the WC-680. I find it interesting that even though I had no load data available for any of the 680 powders I worked up to the same 13gn load albeit with an 80gn cast boolit instead of a 70gn jacketed bullet.
I do also have a few pounds of Win 680 but have not yet tried it because I have way more of the WC-680. In the end I may well find that they are the same.
I am out of AA-1680 but my burn rate charts show it as being several positions on the chart faster burning.
Eventually I will work up another load for the Lyman 70gn boolit. Since the slower WC-680 seemed about optimum in burn rate for the 80gn boolit giving about top end pressure at 100% load density perhaps the slightly faster AA-1680 will be about optimum for the lighter 70gn Lyman boolit.

[w30wcf]

Bullshop,
Thank you for starting this thread and sharing your results. The .25-20 is one of my favorites. I too have wondered about the difference in the 218 Bee and .25-20 pressures. It would seem that the .25-20 could run at 218 Bee statistics if needed....with the right bullet of course.

One thing I do know is that my lot of AA1680 is slower burning than the lot of Winchester 680 that I have....at least in the .22 Hornet. It takes 13.5 grs of 1680 to equal the velocity that W680 produces at 11.5 grs. under a 47 gr. cast bullet.

To date my fastest cast bullet load in my 1927 vintage '92 (relined) was 2,268 f.p.s. with 15 grs. (capacity load) of 1680/WSR under a 72.5 gr 257420 bullet. It shot reasonably well at 50 yards (1 1/2-2") with the tang sight at my 70+ yr old eyes. I had though about trying some W680, backing off 20% and going up from there to see what would happen.

With the Ranch Dog bullet my best results to date has been with a capacity load of 13/RL7 giving 1,910 f.p.s. and 1 1/2" 5 shot groups at 50 yds. I must say though, that I haven't tried the 1680 nor W680 yet. I need to do that before the snow flies.



w30wcf

[Bullshop Junior]

That is a pretty impressive mushroom!!

[Bullshop]

w30wcf
Ouch!! That should make a hole.
I have wondered why the burn rate chart I have lists AA1680 as being so much faster than the other two 680 offerings. I have also wondered if its true. I had always thought that wc-680 was just a surplus AA1680 but was baffled by the burn rate chart.
I am glad to hear of your experience with this.
I see you are using quite a soft 50/1 alloy and it looks to be expanding nicely. I am quench hardening a COWW type alloy so my boolits should test out about BHN-20 but I have not tested any yet.
With this load and even with hard boolits the big meplate of the RD design does its work. Night before last I went out rabbit hunting and shot six cottontails with this load. No shots were longer than 50 yards. Head shots pretty much took the whole head. Anything that missed the head and landed back near the shoulder destroyed the front half of the rabbit beyond use. That big flat face on this boolit does some devastating work even hard and non expanding. I am anxious to try it on a coyote.
I have been anxiously awaiting 10/1 as my beginning date to start stretching coyotes but couldn't get out today but hope to break away for a hunt tomorrow.

[w30wcf]

Bullshop,
My lot of AA-1680 is probably 10 years or so old. As we know, with any new lot of powder, to start, the initial charge weight should be reduced....

That being said, based on your results (2100 f.p.s. / 13 / WC680) with a heavier 85 gr or so bullet and my results with AA1680 with a lighter bullet as indicated above, I would think it would take 15 grs. of my lot of 1680 to reach approx. 2100 with the RD bullet although I doubt that one coul get that much 1680 in the case and still be able to seat the RD bullet to its normal seating depth.

One of the reasons for using the softer 50/1 alloy with the RD bullet is that my rifle doesn't have enough throat to allow a cartridge loaded with the RD bullet to chamber without heavy engraving of the nose. With hard alloys, it needs to be seated deeper but with 50/1, I can close the action with just a bit of resistance at the normal seating depth.

Back in the mid 80's I found that a 50/1 bullet shot pretty much as well in the .22 Hornet at 2,400 f.p.s. as did harder bullets. The same seems to be true, at least so far in the .25-20.......

w30wcf

[Bullshop]

That's interesting because in my rifle the RD design is a perfect fit with no real engraving when chambering.
As you said with my load there is no more room for powder with the 13gn charge as its already at 100% capacity.
I have another 85gn design that was a custom group buy about 10 years ago. This design has dual crimp grooves to accommodate rifles with throats of varying lengths. I seat this design to the bottom groove for the longer OAL and it chambers freely without engraving to any degree. It too is a gas check design.

[Bullshop Junior]

The ranch dog 32 bullet engraves heavily in my 336 32 special. It also hits the target sideways.

[paul edward]

Was that a black or brown bear those other fellers shot with your 25/20?

[303Guy]

The ranch dog 32 bullet engraves heavily in my 336 32 special. It also hits the target sideways.

Did you get that sorted out? Why would it have hit sideways?

I've been following this thread because the idea of a cast 25 cal appeals to me and the 25/20 sounds just about ideal. But I don't have one. I do have a 25/303 with a 1 in 10 twist. See where this is going? Ok so it's not a light rifle but it's a 25. So I'm thinking a light load of Trail Boss or H4227. Would the large case capacity be a detriment? The velocities you folks are getting with the 25/20 sounds just about right and would be what I would hope for. (It's not like I need another cast boolit project when I haven't even started casting for my 303's ).

[square butte]

303Guy - If you haven't already - Check out the Marlin Owners website and the 25-20 Reloaders forum there. 98+ pages of excellent info on 25-20 reloading. It'll take you a while to get through it all. But well worth you time.

[Bullshop Junior]

Did you get that sorted out? Why would it have hit sideways?

I've been following this thread because the idea of a cast 25 cal appeals to me and the 25/20 sounds just about ideal. But I don't have one. I do have a 25/303 with a 1 in 10 twist. See where this is going? Ok so it's not a light rifle but it's a 25. So I'm thinking a light load of Trail Boss or H4227. Would the large case capacity be a detriment? The velocities you folks are getting with the 25/20 sounds just about right and would be what I would hope for. (It's not like I need another cast boolit project when I haven't even started casting for my 303's ).

It is still puzzling me very much.

[Bullshop]

Was that a black or brown bear those other fellers shot with your 25/20?

That particular bear was a black but more than one grizzly has fallen to old B00 my first year production Marlin 45/70.