first time melting down WW's

[speedyr]

been lurking and reading for quite a while. picked up a Lee melting pot or two, some molds (lee, Lyman, and NOE), an RCBS and Lyman 450 swager and a few sizing dies, White Label Lube, etc. I've been reloading for years and reload a lot of lead currently but nothing that I cast myself. I have the Lyman book and a few others but this forum has been a huge source of wasted ti... uh... informative reading over the years.

I bought some known quality lead ingots (isotope lead cores) but also have picked up a bunch of wheel weights (clip on and stick on) and now it's time to convert some of the WW's I have been slowly collecting into ingots. I just bought a Harbor Freight cast iron pot (6 quart?), and have a good burner (from making beer) so I'm set. I have one of the wifes old muffin tins, a good thermometer (NOE) and also an RCBS ingot mold. so questions for the group:

1) the RCBS ingot mold has rust all over it. some of the bars that I was given when I bought the mold have "rust" on them. is this an issue? should I try to clean it, or just start melting the wheel weights and it'll clean up? or does it matter?

2) some of the ingots have rust on them, should I remelt them and flux them?

3) flux- I read that sawdust is one of the best when melting the WW's. I have a bunch of walnut and corn cob media that since my conversion to stainless pins just sits there. Can I use that instead? Or maybe get parafin from the store and use that? I'm sure I can find sawdust but would like to clean up some other "stuff" in the basement and this seemed like a good use for it.

4) sounds like my best bet is to put some known lead in the bottom of the pot to get started, bring up to temps (675-700?) then add the WW so I don't get any zinc melted from the initial heating? that way if I miss some zinc (or steel) I won't mess up my lead. just keep adding WW till it's got a fair amount in it melted. skim off clips and stuff I missed. Flux with sawdust. stir up, remove anything else floating. Start to fill the muffin tin and RCBS mold. do this till most lead is gone, add next batch of COWW, repeat.

what's the best way to move lead from pot to ingot molds? I have a small Lee/Lyman dipper w/ pour spout, but was thinking a larger SS ladle might be more efficient? eventually I'll get a bigger cast iron ladle but hoping to do some of this in the next few days if I have time and no rain in the forecast.

what kind of time frame are you looking at for melting down a 5 gallon bucket of COWW? I think the dutch over I got was 6 quarts? My burner puts out 75k BTU so it's pretty good at putting out heat but want to keep temps lower as I don't want to screw up my mix with melted zinc.

that's all I can think of right now but I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get more into this. then comes the fun, actually making some boolits!

Mainly getting into this for a few odd/older calibers that I would like to assure myself a supply of bullets. 35 rem (will eventually get the RCBS 200gr RN mold), 348 win, maybe some 30 caliber molds, and maybe 22 caliber molds (hornet and bee). I have a custom 6.8spc mold and the 247gr NOE mold for the 300AAC round, as well as some heavy 44 mag molds (240/300gr). Like I said I've been picking up stuff here and there for a few years, but now it's time to start putting everything together.

[Yodogsandman]

Get the ladle....mucho worth the price.

Wear heavy gloves, safety glasses and long sleeves, pants not shorts, shoes not sneakers.

Keep your face away from the pot and fumes.

Smelt outside on a sunny day with a breeze.

Put WW in pot and heat up with the pot. Keep the heat down to prevent melting zinc. Heat your ladle on top, prior to dipping it, too.

Flux with sawdust/media and a little wax/bullet lube. Light the fumes with a match if needed. Stir good, introduce lots of air, scrape bottom and sides. Dip out the clips and debris. An old metal coffee can is a good receptacle.

Fill your ingot molds, dump and when the pots about empty fill it again. Rust works as a release agent.

Repeat.

Completion time won't be too long for one bucket, maybe 3 or 4 hours.

Your just about there so, good luck.

[bangerjim]

Melting lead is not rocket science! Just do it.

Lead and rust to no mix. What you see is probably something just on the surface that can be removed with a hand wire brush if it bothers you. Rust will FLOAT on top of molten lead, as will clips, dirt, rocks, brass, copper, and pretty much everything else with a higher melting temp than lead.

I never add WW's to a pot of molten lead. There could be moisture in the clips and weights and you do NOT want that. Eiither bake them in an oven for a while to drive out any water or add them to a cold pot (with a small amount of lead in the bottom to get things started and bring up the heat. You will not be inviting the fairy that way. If you do add them to a hot molten pot, do it with really REALLY long handle tongs! I have a pair that are 2 foot long. Or a long handle spade to "sift" them gradually in.And wear leather welder gloves, apron, and a full face mask! Better safe than sorry.

CLEAN (not used) tumble media will work but not nearly as good as pine sawdust. Flux 2X with dust and the last time with dust and some wax. I use only beeswax in my CASTING pot, not paraffin as it flairs up too easily and really stinks. Any carbon-based life form will work for a "flux" but pine sawdust has been found my many to be the best.....and it is everywhere. Just do not get it from big box stores that cut pressure treated and glue board!


It takes..............as long as it takes to melt WW's. Too many variables to give a timeframe. Just do it.

A rusty mold it GOOD! It is seasoned and will release easily.

I have only LEE and LYMAN and RCBS commercial molds and use them to differentiate. The RCBS is ONLY pure lead. The Lee (1/2 & 1# cavities) I use for alloys like pewter and tin. Lyman gets anything else. Then I color code the ends for easy long distance ID. And stamp my code on them as to what they are. I have melted all my old muffin tin ingots down into real ingots because they just look and stack better. Loaf-shaped kitchen ware is OK but the round ones really bite.

I use a SST ladle that holds about 4# of liquid Pb. Bottom pours are generally too slow and you will get ugly ingots! Pour fast for best results. I think mine came from one of the designer cooking stores in the mall.

Good luck in you melting adventure.

banger

[cdngunner]

What flux should he use?

[bangerjim]

What flux should he use?

Any carbon-based life form will work for a "flux" but pine sawdust has been found by many to be the best.

[triggerhappy243]

sad to see all that good info get deleted yesterday. memory not that good.

[Quiettime]

I'd save the isotope lead for later. Start out with the wheel weights. I mainly use clip-ons for most of my casting, or range scrap. Stick ons I save for cap and ball round balls as they are close to pure lead.

COWW's do not have to be 700* to melt, usually more like <600. I use a low flame and let it take its time so it cooks off all the moisture and you will see any zinc weights come to the top with the clips and trash. (they are usually marked ZN but not always)

Most iron weights say Fe and there's no way you're going to melt them.

If much lead is sticking to the clips, you're still not hot enough. Don't skim until all the trash and lead are separated. Just keep stirring the **** toward the middle of the pot and scrape the sides periodically. When it's right you'll see clips all floating on top with no lead sticking. I use a slotted spoon and shake as I skim so I don't risk wasting lead.

Antimony will go through a very thick slushy stage and make you think you've got zinc contamination. Just let the temp come up slowly. By 600 or so you should have achieved "liquidus" with no slush and by then you should have the clips and trash floating pretty good.

COWW's will reduce a lot in volume as they melt. Resist the urge to add raw weights after you've got a good melt.

Go for it, and good luck.

[el34]

Small bag of pine shavings from Walmart pet dept, sold as small critter litter, $2.57 fluxed a ton of lead for me-



Throw in a cup of that and a couple of sugar-cube size chunks of paraffin, let it smoke a bit, then light it with a long lighter. Stir if you can with a chunk of broomstick or similar. Stir more when the fire is out and the pine is charcoaled, scraping the sides and bottom of the pot as well as you can.

Don't worry about steel, it won't cause anything bad. Just zinc, and in my experience it's a bit risky to rely on "I'll just keep my pot below 780deg". If zinc is on the bottom when you fire it up you can melt it before being able to measure temp.

A wire strainer is great for skimming the floating stuff. SS ladle for pouring ingots and a cheap serving spoon for scooping the fine stuff bent to fit, all from Walmart-

[speedyr]

thanks for all the feedback. I try to do as much research as possible before asking questions. I've read all about it and been lurking here for a year or two (or 3 or 4) and there's a wealth of knowledge. I am always apprehensive to try something new especially when it can have some bad repercussions (i.e. molten lead), so wanted to confirm some info and just make sure i'm doing it correctly. cdngunner it wasn't so much what flux (I've read countless pages of info about what does/doesn't work) but didn't see much info on using the walnut or corn cobb tumbling media. since I had 20-30lbs of it just sitting around it would be nice to use that instead of tossing it out, just thought I'd check to see if anyone else had used that specific media as flux.

it sounds like I'm on the right track, looks like i"m out of town this weekend but will definitely be getting started on this in the next two weeks. I'll post up results and some photos as I go along. first job- convert COWW to ingots. then I'll look into the actual casting in the near future.

I'm getting my used/older Lub-a-matic and 450 set up now, as I picked up about 1500 lyman 429421 boolits that I have to size and lube. couldn't pass them up for $60.

I've got some stick on and ingots he gave me that are supposedly pure lead. I have a Lee 00 buckshot mold so may try those first and see how it works.

thanks again, will post some photos of how things turn out.

[bangerjim]

Specifically on walnut/corncob media:

I have tried it and do not use it at all. It does carbonize but not as fast as pine sawdust. Since it is hard and in much bigger pieces in general, it burns much slower and does not react at the speed I expect or demand.

If you would do a survey of all the people on here, you would probably find as many items as there are members that are used for flux.....even used motor oil! YUCK! That is really scraping the bottom of the barrel. But if it turns to carbon when burned, it will work to various degrees.

Again, why buck the popular findings of many knowledgable people on here and many other sites, found thru much trial and error on their part.

Use clean DRY pine sawdust.

Give your tumble media to a buddy that uses it for what it was made for. Or use the corncob stuff for plant mulch. Walnut is very acidic and can potentially kill many types of plants. That is just another reason I do not like to burn it.

Use at your own discretion...your mileage many vary!

Have fun!

banger

[speedyr]

banger, thanks for the clarification. I'll pick up some pine sawdust (there's some construction sites where I work, or just go by walmart and pick up the pine bedding materials) and run with that. I had read about the oil and I have plenty of that, but didn't want to go there.

I'm sure I can find someone to give me media to, just had it sitting there last night as I was looking over stuff to get ready for a session and thought that might be pretty similar to the sawdust that folks recommend. I did some searches but not much conclusive specifically on that, but sawdust it is!!

sucks being the newbie. lol.

[Hardcast416taylor]

People are finding out that I`m not NUTZ for skimming out steel WW clips with a 6" or longer 1" round magnet then wiping them off into a can with your leather gloved hand! You`ll also pick up FE (iron) weights with the mag. If you haven`t tried this method, don`t POO-POO it to readily.Robert

[triggerhappy243]

hardcast, your not nuts, I use the magnet off an old stereo speaker screwed to a 2x2 stick 24 inches long to pull out the steel clips. works great and the steel gets sorted for the recycle bin.

[RogerDat]

A member here suggested grinding a flat tip on a slotted spoon for stirring during fluxing, that flat tip works a lot better for scraping the "crud" off the pot bottom and along the seam where side meets bottom of the pot. Before that I was sometimes getting crud coming up in the melt after fluxing.

[roysee]

A magnet!? Why didn't I think of that. Thanks for the tip, Hardcast & TriggerHappy. Regarding the isotope lead - my concern would be that it might be too soft by itself to make good bullets for smokeless powder purposes. It sure is a lot softer than wheel weights and might even be soft enough for muzzle loader bullets. Anyone out there know for sure about how soft is isotope lead?

[speedyr]

http://www.fellingfamily.net/isolead/index.html

[RogerDat]

http://www.fellingfamily.net/isolead/index.html

From that reading since the cores will harden when quenched to me indicates it is not plain lead. Might be softer than COWW's but I would think plain lead would not quench harden as much.

[roysee]

Good link, speedyr. From reading the info it is apparent the only two isotope canisters that came my way were of the pure lead variety. Never knew of the harder stuff. Might go looking for it now.