Tappers for the Master Caster

[HATCH]

Because its plc controlled you could do this.
Keep in mind it would require A LOT of programming but it is doable.

Once you figure out what the ideal setup is for the amount of lead and the cool down timers (lead and mold) then you could have a sub-program for each of the calibers you cast.
You then have a virtual switch for each caliber.
The switch would then run that set of timers.
To my limited knowledge, I don't think you can do a look up table with the PLC.
The touchscreen doesn't store any data beside its own programming.
In fact you have the option of the touchscreen storing the ENTIRE program so you can retrieve it later (touchscreen program) or have it so it can't be read out of the touchscreen.

I load for 14 different calibers but it ends up being only like 12 different molds.
I could have 12 different screens on the touch screen that I can change each timer for each mold.
Then I could have a screen to select the mold I am using which would then active that mold's program.

The only limitation to what you can do on a PLC is the size of the program and covering all the points (inputs and outputs)


I ran into a snag last night.
All versions of the Hatch program are incompatible with the touchscreen.
This has to do with the fact that I used a fixed data entry instead of a dynamic.
Correcting this issue is pretty easy and only took about 5 mins to fix.
I haven't tested it yet but it should work from what tech support said.. Yes I had to ask for help.

[Tazza]

It's never a bad thing to ask for help

That is a lot of different molds you use right there, having pre-set times is ideal for your setup. The other way is to have the times written down, but why do that if you can have them stored in a fancy computer. I have 3 molds but really only use one of them.

If a file look up is not doable, your idea of a menu of the different molds is perfect. This is all assuming that the PLC has enough memory to store all of the data.

You are doing a lot more with a PLC than i thought possible.

[HATCH]

The entire program uses 1% of the PLC memory right now.
So even if I duplicated everything 20 times, I would still have plenty of space left.

I use 4 inputs and 4 outputs on the current DT program.
The PLC has 8 inputs and 6 outputs so I have room to do 4 hardwire switches if I want to do it that way.

I spoke to my brother Ray today and we discussed the PLC, touchscreen, and different molds.
I figure that I only really need 3 or 4 preset timers provided I had the ability to adjust the lead pour.
If I am casting a 220 grain, 230 grain or 250 grain boolit the cool down timers would be pretty close together so I could use one preset for them. 175HP,180fp and 200 rnfp would use another and then maybe one for the 115,125,147,158

When setting up the PLC for the touchscreen you can specify a default setting for each timer.
I plan to read the program that is currently in my PLC right now and use its settings for the default. I have cast 158 grain and 230 grain with them and had no issues.

Also found out the usb program cable for the screen also does the PLC so thats a bonus since my notebook now doesn't have any serial ports.

[Tazza]

That is a lot less than i would have thought, i assume the addition of the extra pre-sets won't add a whole lot to the room the program will take up.

I do like the idea of switches, turn it and it has a pre-set that you can adjust the lead pour slightly to run smoothly.

[HATCH]

Is basic ladder logic.
Once you get passed the start/stop stuff its nothing more then a few timers.

[HATCH]

Figured out the touchscreen.
I can now access EVERY function in the PLC via touchscreen.
right now I have 4 screens.
Title screen
Single Tap (safety delay,lead pour, mold cool, stroke)
Double Tap (safety delay,lead pour, mold cool, stroke)
Double tap settings (DT delay, dt tap counter)
Screen 5 will be for the options
I think I will move DT to a virtual switch and put it on screen 5
Make the hardwire input for DT the manual lead pour.

[spena64]

Hello,
I am new to posting on this forum but have been following the automation stuff for about a year and half. I just now ran across this thread and thought I would share my setup with you. I apologize because I meant to share it a long time ago and to say thank you for all of the information you all have provided on automating the Master Caster.

Automated Master Caster with tappers: Video

This video was taken about a year ago. I have since added a tapper to the left side. I run 185 gr 45's and so far it works like a champ. The tappers are pneumatic and controlled through the PLC by switching a solenoid valve. Cycle time is about 10 secs.

Sol

[Tom_Highway]

Nice job!!! Awesome!!!

[HATCH]

Looks great.
One question is what ms is the tappers set at. What's the pulse?

[Tazza]

That is a very nice setup.

How did you get the ram to move so smooth? are you using flow resitrictors?

Mine moves a lot faster than yours, it doesn't need the speed, it just needs the power to cut the sprue, but with the pressure needed, it moves the ram quite quickly.

[jmorris]

I like it Sol. Looks a lot smoother slowing the pneumatics down and adding the tapper.

Tazza I imagine he is using a needle valve style speed control, they are the most common.

http://www.pisco.com/prodtype.aspx?prodtypeid=27


Adjust the valve and lock it down. I have some cylinders that have a 1/8"-1/8" fitting that just has a small hole through the center. Controlling the flow will slow the speed down but once it does get full of air you have all the power it would have had (minus the inertia of the fast movement hammering at the end of the stroke.)

[HATCH]

I am still waiting on the metal shop to make the parts I need made. Sucks not being a machinist.
I use flow controllers and adjust them after the machine is up to temp.
I do know that when the machine is cold that the timing for the double tap has to be changed. Found that out this morning when I was playing with the touchscreen.

[spena64]

Thank you everyone.
Tappers - I have two timers and one counter that control the tapping sequence. Currently I fire the tapper solenoid for 100ms and turn it off for 100ms and do 8 taps, one solenoid for both tappers. On the left side I tap the side of the mold and any stuck bullet falls out within a few taps, but a stuck bullet on the right side will drop at about 6 taps. I have thought about moving the right tapper to the side, but it is pretty tight with the sprue plate on that side.

Ram speed - This was a little tricky because when I first setup it up cold it worked great and then running it hot everything changed.
Here is the current setup:
I use a 1-1/16" double acting cylinder with 3 position sensors and 3 (meter out) speed controllers. The position sensors indicate end of stroke and the mid-stroke cooling position. The cooling position sensor is a trigger to tell the PLC to stop the ram and it always drafts past the sensor, so this could be done with a timer eliminating the extra sensor. I use one speed controller on retract attached to the extend port (meters exhaust to control retract speed). For the extend stroke I have two speed controllers in parallel attached to the retract port. The first speed controller is on the retract input line and is set to move the ram slowly to the cool position. The second speed controller (in parallel with the first) is upstream of a 2-way normally closed valve. This valve stays closed during the extend to cool stroke and opens during the full extend stroke. The second speed controller allows me to bump up the full extend stroke speed to reliably shear off the sprue. I designed the system to operate at 80psi and I found that it still needed some speed to shear the sprue using the 1-1/16 cylinder. When I ran it too slow it would hesitate when shearing the sprue and then slam into the stop. I am sure there is a simpler way to do this, but in the heat of battle this is what I came up with.

I have made about 2000 to 3000 bullets and so far it has worked pretty well. Now that the weather is cooling off I plan to run it more over the next 5 months.
I hope this helps and if anyone would like to see the PLC code send me a PM. I will try to get a few photos of the current setup posted later today.

[chloe123]

A late edit: he's a fast typer too (see above)


Stared at the stream of Spena64s video when it was posted. I didn't think the steady speed and the pneumatic were compatible. Questions for thought. Wondering if the psi/force rating is higher on the dual acting cylinder, as well as what led him to the change from the design he followed. The mechanics behind the controls different than the Hatch design? And what about the Frankenstein Thumler?

Here's a guy who followed the W/H mod quietly and re-tooled it. I'd like to stay dark for a year and come up with some brilliant like that!

[spena64]

Here is the route I took. From the beginning I wanted to stop at a cooling position because this how I did it manually. The problem was that I could not find a setting/speed that would repeatably stop the mold under the fan and then have enough speed to shear the sprue. The main valve for the ram is a double solenoid, 3 position, 5 port, center closed valve. A different solenoid valve scheme may have corrected this issue but I went the two speed controller route.

I don't think the mechanics behind the controls is a whole lot different, except for firing an additional solenoid to retract the ram. also, I am looking for sensor inputs to trigger certain sequences.

Frankenstein Thumler - You had me stumped on that one until I went back and looked at the video. Nothing going on there except for lack of space on my table


Here are a few of photos of my current setup. Because it has been too hot to venture out into the garage the last 3 or 4 months I had forgotten about the new style of tapper head, see photo. I still use the threaded stand off on the end of the cylinder, but I added a piece of aluminum bar stock as the head to add mass. The aluminum is soft enough so that it does not damage the mold and the added mass did help to drop the stuck bullets. The valve in the third photo opens and closes the faster ram extend circuit to atmosphere.

[jmorris]

I used a simple air valve and single acting Spring return cylinder on the one I posted in #34 because it was the simplest thing I could do with my machine with what I had but you could make a non electronic tapper that would oscillate as fast as it could make a tap without electronics just pneumatics. Like in this video.

http://vid664.photobucket.com/albums...psgwzbtdj8.mp4

I still have an old pneumatic windshield wiper actuator off of an 18 wheeler that is internally set up in this fashion. Just need to hit either switch to reverse with the tapper lever/arm/head. More or less a realitively slow air hammer.

Only trick would be another air valve that the mold carrier hit when it stopped for its cool down cycle, at the bottom and allow air to the system then shut it off when it started back up for another pour.

For that matter you could use an air hammer if you could set it low enough to not beat everything up and still run. Then it just allows air to them when the mold is down.

Kind of like this but turned down (a lot) with a soft tipped arbor. There is a valve on the $7 one I picked up some years ago that will allow you to completely shut if off ( the knulrled knob next to the air inlet fitting) but I think it would be over kill for what we are talking about.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...77648437,d.b2U

[Tazza]

Jmorris - That is what i thought was used too, i'm going to see what restrictors i can find on ebay to suit my hose. I was going to make a restrictor and drill it out as needed, but for the price of an adjustable one, i may give it a go.

I like the tappers, I have cylinders like that in my parts bin, I too was going to use buffers at the end, not to give more force for the impacts, but something to not damage the mold where it was being struck. Something softer that the mold or sprue plate that is being hit.

We just got into Spring here, so it was cool enough to cast masses during Winter. I have quite a stock pile cast, just need to coat and size them.

Heaps of time to tweak before next Winter rolls around.

[jmorris]

The "damage" part is why I use soft bras tappers.

The attachment/ adapter is a .042" hole vs a .187". One can be a "finger snatcher" the other is OK.

The .042 is still pretty quick activating a toggle clamp like in this video.

http://vid664.photobucket.com/albums...psh4omfmf7.mp4

But it doesn't have the "snap" of a full bore hit. It is also just a cheap adapter, one could do the same with an insert and drill bits but a needle valve is pretty cheap and fully adjustable.

[jmorris]

I figured some one would ask about the weld...could use some more post flow but they are happy and makes $3 a part. The fixture or machine costs you once, from that point you are doing OK.

Just like an auto caster.

I think Hatch is going to make it easy for everyone.

[Tazza]

That is a very cool clamp. $3 per welded item is pretty sweet when all you have to do is a small amount of TIG welding that takes you so little time. Yet you did have to make the clamp and work it for this job.

I know people that have done the hole drilling for adjusting hydraulic cylinder movement on backhoe attachments when the swing is so wild it is uncontrollable.