Large pistol primers or large rifle primers for a 44-40

[duckdup]

Starline Brass calls for LP...

"It has come to our attention that some Uberti revolvers have issues with light hammer strikes and will only fire with Federal primers, which we generally recommend for revolvers anyway."

[Savvy Jack]

I use LP's in my firearms and RPs in my test barrel. If one is not careful and fails to check the primer pockets, a dirty primer pocket can cause the RP to not seat all the way and protrude out enough to cause a case to bind against the recoil plate in a revolver. I use the RP's in my test barrel because my firing pin is not quit as long as it needs to be if I fail to adjust the barrel properly against the recoil plate.

[sass2924]

Yep, large pistol.

[Harry O]

I reload the 38-40 and 44-40. I use large pistol in both since both are loaded with light loads with easy to ignite powder for CAS. I just loaded 200 38-40's for CAS late last week. Because of this thread, I checked what was going on with mine.

With the large pistol primer, the face of the primer is BELOW the face of the rim -- very slightly. It has never caused a failure to fire or any other problem since my CAS guns have big, long, beefy firing pins. It might be a problem with a frame mounted firing pin, but I don't have any to try that. I tried one case with a large rifle primer. The face of the primer was flush with the face of the rim. It seems to me both can be used, depending on the pressure of the load.

I do have some 44-40's that I purposely loaded for other than CAS. They are much higher pressure than factory loads. I did use large rifle primers on those. Again, I had no problems with firing them. BTW, I used some of the 38-40's I loaded last week to check the sights on my primary CAS rifle. It was still set up perfectly. It is an old Uberti 1873 Winchester clone I have had for about 20 years or so and it has been the most trouble free gun of any type I have ever owned. Other than a few springs I replaced when I first got it (to make it easier to use), it had never had any problems of any kind.

[Texas by God]

I have loaded .44-40 with both types, adjust the charge weight down for RP.
I don't know why I wrote .45 ACP first. Cerebral flatulence, perhaps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Four Fingers of Death]

Hi I recently bought a Rossi Mod 92 in 44-40 and I will be reloading the ammo for this rifle and I am wandering if I am able to use large rifle primers instead of large pistol primers as it is more difficult to get the LP primers so is there a difference in them.

Well Neo, How'd it go? I have never had any trouble getting LP primers in Bathurst, Australia, but I suppose small shops in remote areas mightn't be so accommodating. Where are you at?

[Outpost75]

Large rifle primers have a greater cup height and will stand "proud" in .44-40 brass unless you use a primer pocket uniformer to increase the depth of the primer pocket so that rifle primers can be seated flush with the case head.

Large pistol is the correct size to use in .44-40 and .44 Magnum brass.

[Outpost75]

NO! ...... Same answer as before ------measure the dang things before you open fire on this --44/40 primer pocket measures for rifle primers 44 mag measures for pistol primers - unless all commercial manufactured 44/40 brass has been changed from rifle to pistol in the last three years

This from Starline web site: https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/44-40-Brass/

Starline Brass > 44-40
44-40 Brass (Large Pistol primer)
44-40 Winchester Brass, 44-40 Win Brass, 44 Win Brass, 44-40WCF Brass, 44 Winchester Brass, 44-40 Marlin Brass
1.294 - 1.300 O.A.L.

Also known as the .44-40 Winchester, .44 WCF, and .44 Winchester, this caliber gained popularity because of its availability in both rifles and handguns. The advent of Cowboy Action Shooting has helped to revive this obsolete vintage cartridge. Our .44-40 brass has a wall thickness of .0065" but is still stiffer and less fragile than other brands, which makes it much easier to reload.

*It has come to our attention that some Uberti revolvers have issues with light hammer strikes and will only fire with Federal primers, which we generally recommend for revolvers anyway.

[georgerkahn]

I am a believer/practicer of using the INTENDED primer for whichever caliber I'm loading! NOT having a ballistics lab, a zillion dollars worth of test equipment, and of most importance the smarts to use it had I have it -- I rely upon printed in book provided data. Included warning in several is the admonition to not swap designated primer size -- e.g., magnums for regular -- and in a few cases they are brand specific.
SAAMI specs for primer pocket are:
SAAMI Specs. primer pockets:
Small Rifle/Pistol : .118" to .122"
Large Rifle: .128" to .132"
Large Pistol: .118" to .122"

I concur with, and cannot agree more with poster #2 (NSB)'s sentiments, and will quote his final words: Don't do it."

[Savvy Jack]

Doesn't take a zillion dollars to test some things. Just because it is written, doesn't make it a Bible. Just because people say it, doesn't mean they know what the hell they are talking about. Just because someone has been handloading for 50 years doesn't mean they know what the hell they are doing...it just means they have been doing it wrong for 50 years.

Don't ever take my take my word for it.....I have no idea what I am doing....and there is a reason I don't gamble....go look for yourself, research and ask questions.

Below are two brand new Starline cases. Look at the primers and tell me which one has the CCI-200 rifle primer and which one has the CCI-300 large pistol primer. Maybe neither, but tell me which one is more likely to have troubles in a rifle mag tube or get locked up in a revolver.

Attachment 230573

CCI-200 Rifle Primer = .1275" Length
CCI-300 Large Pistol = .1205" Length



Also, below are two brand new Winchester cases. Guess which
Attachment 230574



Winchester brass with CCI-200 rifle primer
Attachment 230575



Starline brass with a CCI-200 rifle primer
Attachment 230576

Yes, all cases photoed are brand new 44-40 cases Doesn't mean other primers are as long

[indian joe]

I am a believer/practicer of using the INTENDED primer for whichever caliber I'm loading! NOT having a ballistics lab, a zillion dollars worth of test equipment, and of most importance the smarts to use it had I have it -- I rely upon printed in book provided data. Included warning in several is the admonition to not swap designated primer size -- e.g., magnums for regular -- and in a few cases they are brand specific.
SAAMI specs for primer pocket are:
SAAMI Specs. primer pockets:
Small Rifle/Pistol : .118" to .122"
Large Rifle: .128" to .132"
Large Pistol: .118" to .122"

I concur with, and cannot agree more with poster #2 (NSB)'s sentiments, and will quote his final words: Don't do it."

And still nobody has actually measured some 44/40 primer pockets !!!!!!!!! I cant find em ten thou shorter (or even five) than proper rifle ones ........
ahhh just some dolt from downunder that cant work a caliper eh!!

[Savvy Jack]

Like I said, never trust anyone's information...measure your own

My measurement of my newly purchased Starline brass' primer pocket.

Measurment from the outside wall where the primer seats is .1235" deep
Attachment 230580

CCI-200 Rifle Primer = .1275" Length
CCI-300 Large Pistol = .1205" Length
Remington 1 1/2 Primer = .1215 Length
Winchester WLP = .1195" Length

Starline = .1235" Deep
RP Brass = .119" Deep
Winchester = .119" Deep

If using my batch of CCI-300 pistol primers with my batch of Winchester or RP brass, you might get a primer extruding .0015" past the case rim.
If using my batch of CCI-200 rifle primers with my batch of Starline brass, you might get a primer extruding .004" past the case rim.
If using my batch of CCI-200 rifle primers with my batch of Winchester or RP brass, you might get a primer extruding .0085" past the case rim.

Just for kicks, my 45-70 Starline pockets are .131" thus using the CCI-200 rifle primers would result in a .0035" recess rather than any kind of extrusion.

Now that my brain is total corn mush right now, I am gonna go take a nap!!

[Harry O]

I have been using Large Pistol Primers in both 38-40 and 44-40 CAS loads for 30 or more years without any problems of any kind. If you are planning to use +P loads, that might not be a good idea, but with standard pressure loads, Large Pistol is all you need.

[Outpost75]

Thank you Gentlemen for the validation.

[Pioneer2]

Win LP primers in my Win 92

[BigEyeBob]

Hi I recently bought a Rossi Mod 92 in 44-40 and I will be reloading the ammo for this rifle and I am wandering if I am able to use large rifle primers instead of large pistol primers as it is more difficult to get the LP primers so is there a difference in them.

I have mistakely used large rifle primers in the 44-40 ,and found thathey dont seat correctly ,this was in Winchester brass ,most were sitting proud of the case head and not slightly below . I realised my mistake and deprimed them and replaced with large pistol primers .This was for my 92 winchester rifle .

[sandog]

Whether you can fit LR primers in .44/40, .45 Colt or any other pistol round is a moot point.
As some have shown in photos above, LR primers may or may not seat deep enough.
Firing pin strength and length is intended for a LP primer.
Just because you are using a "rifle", it is firing a pistol round, so you should use pistol primers. Period.
Just like all the loading manuals will tell you.
If a firing pin in a 1873, 1892 or 1894 Marlin was piercing primers on a regular basis, then that rifle or carbine might be better served by using a stouter LR primer. But that doesn't happen, LP primers work just fine.
Here's what Mike Venturino had to say about it, from the book "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West" under the reloading chapter., when adressing why he calls them "pistol-cartridge lever guns".

"And that brings us to the first important point about reloading for pistol-cartridge lever action rifles and carbines.
That is that with the single exception of .25-20 caliber, all should be reloaded with pistol primers.
Let me repeat myself, regardless of whether these cartridges are going to be fired in revolvers or lever action rifles and carbines, the proper primer size for them is small or large pistol, as appropriate.
The reason is that all brass made for these calibers is made with the primer pocket dimensionally formed for pistol primers.
Rifle primers are slightly longer, and will not fit the primer pockets properly.
Again however I must stress that .25-20 is an exception to this rule. brass for .25-20 is made to take small rifle primers".

If some of you have deeper than usual primer pockets, and want to keep using LR primers, good for you.
I'll continue to use what's recommended by powder and bullet companies with their fancy lab equipment that put out the data.

[Savvy Jack]

Let's don't get carried away with the pistol cartridge rifle cartridge BS
Just because we use "Pistol" Primers doesn't mean the cartridge is a "pistol" cartridge. Sure, the 45 Colt would be a pistol cartridge also used in a rifle as well as the 44 Magnum but the 44-40 and the 38-40 cartridges are listed under SAAMI specs as a RIFLE cartridge and we use them in pistols.

If a cartridge was designed for a rifle, it is a rifle cartridge. The 30 carbine is a rifle cartridge...just because it is used in a revolver doen't make it a pistol cartridge does it?
Is a .22 Long Rifle a pistol cartridge?

[sandog]

So because the aforementioned rounds are chambered in both rifles and revolvers, you are determined to use rifle primers anyway, despite the advice of the loading companies and manuals ? Okie Dokie.

[Savvy Jack]

So because the aforementioned rounds are chambered in both rifles and revolvers, you are determined to use rifle primers anyway, despite the advice of the loading companies and manuals ? Okie Dokie.

Go read my replies.....and you will see my answer