Newbie AR15 Build Accurate 16" Barrel Help

[JesterGrin_1]

You will not be disappointed. Matching bolt not necessary. I have a spikes lothar walther(Lw50) for my 300blk AR pistol, it is sub moa even with cast and is only 10".

you can buy matched sets from some manufacturers. I've yet to find a barrel that was not in spec. And if it was out, all I could do is keep trying bolts or send it back. Head spacing on an AR is not easily fixed by the home gun assembler.

I know that the barrels should be on Spec. But as you said they can be out of spec even on a good barrel such as the one by Lothar Walthar. But this is also why I may Purchase the Lothar Walthar Bolt Head. I feel it would be cheap insurance. Well not cheap but overall more of a safety factor.

I am heavily considering a Nickel Boron Bolt Carrier Group?

[JesterGrin_1]

Jupiter7, QUOTE: "Head spacing on an AR is not easily fixed by the home gun assembler".


this is the sole reason I bought a "COMPLETE" upper from the factory. complete, ready to attach to my lower and go shoot. no assembly required. This is what I would recommend Jester should do. JMTCW

I understand your concern but this is also why I am going to go with a Good Barrel Company Lothar Walthar. As I am very Confident that they Will stand behind there product.

But I am not going to Fear the prospect that I may have to exchange a barrel. As I am not in a Great Hurry to build said Rifle.

But Thank You for your Concern in that respect to the build.

[dkf]

I only run regular Phosphate BCGs. I'll use the money saved over coated BCGs for something that is actually needed and is worth the money. A good BCG for the $$$ is the Spikes. You can often times pick one up for $135.

I don't build lots of ARs but I know people whom build tons of ARs, (dozens and dozens) and they have never had a headspace issue. Some of the barrels they use are cheap ones too. Check the brass or buy a set of gauges but it is not something real common that is wrong. Of course buying from a company with a good track record helps.

I am working on purchasing this Lothar Walthar 16" http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...d=927&fprdct=1

It was suggested that I use there matching Bolt Head?

Looks like that is a polygonal rifled barrel. I never used them for cast boolits so I can't say how they will work.(maybe others can)

Spikes sells good stuff and AIM is good to deal with. My last rifle I bought was a Spikes bought from AIM. The Spikes BCGs are very good and priced right. While you are ordering the barrel I would pick up a BCG if you need one.

[JesterGrin_1]

Felt I should update this.

I am going to purchase a Lothar Walther 16" Barrel with a Matched Bolt by Lothar Walther.
Barrel Specs.
LW-50 Stainless Steel
Mid-Length Gas System
M4 Barrel Extension, with Extended M4 Feed ramps
1:8 Twist Polygonal Rifling, With .223 Wylde Chamber
1/2x28 Thread Pitch For Muzzle Device

I also picked up a BCG from PSA On Sale $119.99
Nickel boron coated full-auto profile bolt carrier group.

Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel bolt
Shot Peened Bolt
High pressure tested
Mag particle inspected
Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications
Gas Key Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners
Gas Key Staked Per Mil-Spec
Tool Steel Extractor
Extractor Spring
Extractor O-ring Insert
PSA Logo ( I could have done without the Logo lol)

Cheers

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok I guess that was a bit much.

[dkf]

Enjoy.

[JesterGrin_1]

While we are on the subject has anyone seen the Butt Stock by Luth AR The MBA-1?
http://www.luth-ar.com/

[dkf]

That is similar to the Magpul PRS but looks like it made to be a lot lighter. A friend turned me onto the B5 Sopmod stock and much prefer them over my Magpul stocks.

[JesterGrin_1]

Yes it is Lighter and has more adjustment and also at Half the Price. But it does not have hide away compartments lol.

I was going to go with the ACE Skeleton (Short) Stock but this one caught my eye.

I have never been found of those adjustable stocks as they feel like you are holding a wet noodle when shooting lol.

[Combat Diver]

Jester,

You going to post a picture of that new rifle of yours yet? I grew up in San Antonio by the way. I'm taking a breather from my latest build that I did this summer (20" 1/7 twist FN bbl, A2 Flash Hinder, FN flat top upper, Knight RIS handguards, carrying handle and MaTech BUIS, M16 bolt carrier, and fix A2 stock) building a M16A4 copy just need to buy a lower when I get home from this deployment.



CD

[MaryB]

Another good barrel source http://www.shop.dezarms.com/ I have one and my gun guy uses them on all of his custom AR builds.

[JesterGrin_1]

As Mentioned I purchased this Barrel Direct from Lothar Walther.

I am going to purchase a Lothar Walther 16" Barrel with a Matched Bolt by Lothar Walther.
Barrel Specs.
LW-50 Stainless Steel
Mid-Length Gas System
M4 Barrel Extension, with Extended M4 Feed ramps
1:8 Twist Polygonal Rifling, With .223 Wylde Chamber
1/2x28 Thread Pitch For Muzzle Device

I am saving up again to probably get a pair of those Magpul Flip Up sights and I am currently looking into some rings for my Ultra Dot Match Dot and my 30MM Scope without breaking the bank in doing so.

[bruce drake]

Regarding the OP's question regarding the differences between a .223 Rem, .223 Wylde and 5.56 NATO chambered barrels and best twist rates.

Its primarily a difference in throating between the 3 chamberings of the same cartridge and how close to SAAMI specs the chamber is cut. ALL 3 chambers will fire the commercial .223 Rem cartridge safely without issues with pressure.

The .223 Rem can fire the 5.56 but the Milsurp ammo is loaded to a higher pressure rating and the shorter throat of the 223 Rem doesn't provide enough free-bore to dissipate the energy properly. I believe most companies who build .223 Rem barrels recommend not firing 5.56 NATO cartridges in the commercial due to the potentiality of an issue with pressure spikes.

The 223 Wylde is a .223 Rem with the throat cut the same as a 5.56 NATO chamber. It allows the shooter to safely shoot the military surplus ammo while retaining the tighter chamber of the .223 Rem whle allowing long 75/77gr bullets to be fired as well. Most highpower shooters like myself consider the Wylde chambering the best compromise chambering for .223 Rem rifles as it allows us to retain the tight chambering of the .223 and the ability to shoot available surplus ammunition when we don't have time to reload our own for a match or we want to save our most accurate reloads for the 200 yard off-hand targets as well as our 500/600 yard line targets and use lower grade surplus ammo for the rapid-fire stages at 200 and 300 yards.

The 5.56 NATO chambering is designed for reliability. It has got a slightly bigger chamber than the .223 Rem to allow for ammunition to be fired while in combat without gumming up from excess carbon during extended firing between cleanings and the throat is the longest of the three to allow for a variable of bullet weights and types to be fired.

List of Military Surplus cartridges that can be safely fired in a 5.56 NATO/223 Wylde Chambered Rifle:

M193 55gr Lead core FMJ-BT, (no colored paint on tip of bullet - gilding metal bronze)
M196 55gr Tracer - Red Tip
M855 62gr Steel Cored FMJ-BT (Belgians first developed this round which is also called a SS109 projectile.) (Green-tip)
M855A1 62gr Enhanced Performance FMJ. Built like a Nosler with a hardened penetrator nose and a copper base. A Green bullet. Not available as surplus as its the current primary cartridge for the military overseas. (Steel-colored penetrator nose with a brass projectile body with a noticeable groove between the two parts of the bullet.
M856 62gr Tracer - (Orange Tip)
M995 62gr Armor-Piercing. (black-tip) (Usually only seen loaded on Kiowa and H500 little bird helicopter miniguns in the Army but if you have time between missions and have friends in those Aviation units, you can add these rounds into M249 SAW belted ammo in place of a M855 bullet and run a Tracer, Ball, Ball, Ball, AP mix to really have an impact when engaging enemy vehicles at security checkpoints... ) But now with the new M855A1 cartridge the need for the Black-tip AP round is lessened.

The Tracers have a different point of impact from their FMJ ball counterparts due to the nature of their tracing compounds burning off during their flight. If you buy pulled tracers to shoot, be aware of this fact as well as the potential fires that can be fired by firing these bullets in a dry environment.

For Barrel Twist Rate Selection.

If you are shooting for fun or matches at short range under 300 yards, than a 1-9" twist barrel loaded with 45-55gr bullets is more than accurate for your needs You can also shoot the 62gr Milsurp FMJ as well but due to the steel core in the bullet you will find your groups may be larger than the lead-core 55grs. Some 1-9" barrels can safely and accurately shoot 69gr match bullets as well.

If you plan on shooting strictly highpower, long range matches or hunting in states where legal to use a 22 caliber bullet, I would recommend shooting a 1-7" twist barrel to allow you to accurately shoot bullets from 60gr to 80grs out to 1000 yards. It isn't recommended to shoot full-power 50gr or smaller bullets in a 1-7 twist barrel as the RPMs that the bullet encounters being shot through that tight of a twist will literally spin the core out of the bullet! Shooting 55gr cast is do-able in this twist due to the nature of the slower velocity of the lead boolit keeps the RPMs down in the safe zone for that bullet weight. Winchester markets a 64gr Power-point spire point jacketed bullet as several other big name companies offer heavier bullets than 64gr for hunting medium sized game such as whitetail deer, antelope and pigs.

The best compromise twist for the this cartridge is the 1-8" twist rate which allows you to shoot the run of the mill 45-55gr bullets all the way up to the 80gr knitting needle specialty bullets for long range.

Other twist rates such as 1-14" and 1-12" have been used in ARs before but the slower rates of twist are usually paired with jacketed bullets smaller than 55gr and lead boolits up to 60gr.

Regarding the barrel length question. Carbine 16" Mid-Length 18" and Rifles 20" (and longer...the longest I've seen was a 26" AR Barrel on a thicker milled billet upper receiver). Again, primarily a question of planned usage. Light woods walking and hunting animals within 250 yards - go with the Carbine length barrel for ease of use. If you feel you want to engage targets decently out to the 500 yards, go with the Mid-Length 18" barrel and if you want the barrel to really reach out, go with the rifle length 20" barrel (24" barrels make awesome varmint rigs)

A reasonable compromise for a new AR Shooter is to purchase a Mid-Length barrel with a mid-length gas tube. If you plan to use iron sights, purchase a Dissipator model barrel which places rifle length handguards over the barrel and moves the Front Sight 2 inches further down the barrel and provides you with a better sight radius.

For the AR Upper, purchase an upper that is configured as a flattop. It will allow the shooter to place a rear sight on the rail to use in conjunction with the front sight for iron sight matches. I would also recommend you place a gas block on the barrel that is setup to have a rail on the gas block. This allows you to place a removeable front sight for iron sights use and also allow you to easily remove that front sight when a scope is in mounted on the upper for load testing or hunting

Well, I hope this provides everyone a good read

ARs and Cast Boolits are an awesome combination! This is my 4000th Post on this forum. I'm really glad that this milestone post is this one!

Bruce

[JesterGrin_1]

Bruce Drake Nothing wrong at all with the read.

But I will ask a Question. Since I plan to Hunt mainly Hogs with this AR with the Barrel specs as I gave previously. Which Bullet would be a good one in the 62- Maybe 75 Gr Depending on if they will fit in a standard Magazine such as a Magpul or Colt Issue?

[tomme boy]

The 75gr HPBT bullets will load to magazine length. So will the 77gr bullets. The 75 gr AMAX will not. That Winchester power point is an excellent bullet for hunting. The Nosler BT bullets are a LITTLE heavier than the Hornady VMAX. I know a few people that have used the Nosler on deer, but they are very careful on shot placement. If it is not a broadside lung shot it is not taken. Maybe look into some of the Hornady TAP ammo if it is still made. Or some of the Barns ammo. The solid copper would work perfect for hogs

[bruce drake]

tomme boy beat me! the Winchester Power Points are excellent for pigs.

[dkf]

Bruce Drake Nothing wrong at all with the read.

But I will ask a Question. Since I plan to Hunt mainly Hogs with this AR with the Barrel specs as I gave previously. Which Bullet would be a good one in the 62- Maybe 75 Gr Depending on if they will fit in a standard Magazine such as a Magpul or Colt Issue?

You want to use a bullet that will stay together well. Bonded, monometal or heavier non bonded that holds together well. I would stay over 60gr in bullet weight and not use a 75gr or 77gr OTM aka BTHP bullet as they tend to fragment fairly rapidly and can struggle to make 12" of penetration in soft tissue. Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition, Nosler 64gr Bonded, Swift Scirroco 2, Speer 70gr and etc. I'd hate for you to hit some bone with a weaker constructed bullet and have it come apart and not get the job done.


I load 75gr Hornady BTHP for longer range and home defense/self defense rounds. They come apart rather rapidly at closer distances but are very accurate out of my 1-7 rifles at short and longer ranges.

A solidly constructed 75gr bullet.(but hold onto your wallet)

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/495...ProductFinding

[JesterGrin_1]

It sure looks as though I will have to bite the bullet as they say and order some Barnes 62Gr TSX bullets.

How would the Hornady 55 Gr Soft Points shoot out of my 16" 1:8 Twist Polygonal Rifling? I am asking as I have seen good reviews of this Bullet and thought of using it for General use.

[bruce drake]

The 55gr Hornadys are good bullets. But my 223 ARs are 1-9 and 1-7 cut-rifled barrels so I must defer to someone else who has a polygonal rifles barrel to discuss this.

[dkf]

It sure looks as though I will have to bite the bullet as they say and order some Barnes 62Gr TSX bullets.

How would the Hornady 55 Gr Soft Points shoot out of my 16" 1:8 Twist Polygonal Rifling? I am asking as I have seen good reviews of this Bullet and thought of using it for General use.

Should shoot fine. I shoot the 55gr Hornady Spire soft points out my 1-7 ARs along with 55gr FMJ. The groupings with the spire SPs are good.