Do you make your own defense rounds?

[FLHTC]

? Staying alive. I cant say im going to live my life examining everything i do in the light of "i might get sued". If i did i would never drive a car let alone put 3,000,000 miles under the wheels of my semi.

This is the continuation of a silly arguement. If everyone is afraid of being sued for using a firearm in self defense then do not carry one or have one in your house. Those few seconds you spend deciding on if you are going to get sued if you defend yourself will get you killed

I couldn't agree more but a shooting trial would be specific to the act, not everything you do. With all the factory ammo available today, why is it necessary to reload a cylinder or magazine full of ammunition for your self defense weapon? Do you have a guarantee that the prosecutor wouldn't present that same argument to the jury? A box of factory ammunition for a self defense weapon at most, costs $30. A 15 round magazine will hold $10 worth. You are going to convince a jury that you reload to save that $10 when you are carrying a $500 gun? You are comparing the conscious decision to carry factory ammunition, to hesitating when confronted. You better hire a slick attorney.

[FergusonTO35]

My two cents: I use nothing but reloads in ALL my centerfire firearms. I do not like most factory centerfire ammo. Much of it is loaded too strong for my taste, I can't deal with too much recoil. Most of it does not use lead boolits. Even before I started pouring my own and joined Cast Boolits I discovered that all my firearms shoot boolits better than jacketed. Better accuracy, less powder required for the same velocity, less recoil. A flat point lead boolit of appropriate weight and velocity gives up nothing to a jacketed bullet for any application other than the really high velocity rifle rounds.

I am not at all sold on the idea that handgun rounds are useless without trendy $$$ defensive loads. I can see the logic where an expanding 9mm 124 grain bullet of good design and construction at 1050 fps would be preferable to an FMJ that just zips through. I cannot see the logic where a flimsy, light for caliber hollowpoint that has the BCE of a pillow would be superior to an FMJ or lead solid at the same velocity. Low pressure rounds such as .32 Auto, .380 Auto, and .38 Special just don't have the velocity to make an expanding bullet consistently effective yet that is exactly what we are told we must use, aberrations such as a 60 grain .32 Auto and 90 grain .38 Special.

My defensive handgun rounds all use hard lead flat point bullets and are thoroughly tested for accuracy and velocity. They consist of a 76 grain .32 Auto at 885 fps, a 160 grain .38 Special at 875 fps, and a 122 grain 9mm at 1,000 fps. As to arguments some might make that I am creating especially deadly ammo these are essentially nineteenth century bullets driven to average velocity.

[M-Tecs]

The reality is it has never been an issue except in some people's imagination.

[jmort]

Bottom line is that there is a myth espoused, like anthropomorphic global warming, with no evidence to support the claim or a single case where someone got in any trouble, criminal or civil, for using ammunition that they loaded for own use. Never ever. Yet I have never seen these same people warn against using hollow points or 10 mm handguns or "powerful" handguns because we know for sure that can get you in trouble. If you are scared use the exact gun/ammo use by the local LEOs but that means using hollow points which can for sure get you in trouble. What a bunch of nonsense.

[jonp]

The reality is it has never been an issue except in some people's imagination.

^^^^^^

[Blackwater]

Ferguson, I love your quote: " I am creating especially deadly ammo these are essentially nineteenth century bullets driven to average velocity." All sorts of things can happen today in our courts, and if worse ever comes to worst, I'll remember that, and make SURE my attorney is schooled on it, THOROUGHLY! Very apt and appropriate tidbit there! Yes, there CAN be all sorts of things happen in court in our harem scarem "system" we have now. It's just a crying shame that so few know how to ENJOY a good fight, whether it's afield, in the streets, OR in court today. Like I said, if you ever go to court, take it VERY seriously, and don't be afraid to fight for the Truth, because some shyster type lawyer MAY actually try to use absolute **** to sway a jury that, unfortunately, may tend to the emotional battle rather than the simple facts of a case, like they used to. I'm not Methusela, but I'm old enough to remember when juries were made up of community leaders and good, solid citizens that were concerned with FACTS, rather than emotional pleas. Today, BECAUSE GOOD MEN WON'T SERVE ON A JURY, we have what we have now, and it ain't good .... BUT, PRINCIPLES are what has always saved mankind, collectively and individually, and when wronged with a stupid lawsuit, one STILL needs to be prepared to defend one's self to the max. It's JUST as important to be willing and ABLE to defend one's self in court, IF it ever comes to that, as it is to be prepared and ABLE to defend one's self in the streets. Old timers, our forebears never expected the world to be "right," but they WERE willing and usually able to handle the wrongdoings of those about who would have tried to undo all they had so laboriously tried to achieve in life. Stupid, unknowing, emotionally based people on a jury may even require an appeal, where cases are reviewed by appellate judges who are more likely to use logic in their decisions. It's just the cost of freedom, and it'll always be that way. It's always BEEN that way, so why would we expect anything different now? We are NOT nobler or better or smarter than we were 200+ years ago when this country was founded, and in fact, a pretty darn good case could be made that we've regressed very substantially, what with so many EXPECTING things to go like they THINK they should, rather than the way they've always been. Foolishness is foolishness, whenever and wherever it's found, and we are CERTAINLY not immune today from such things just because science and technology have progressed. We haven't. We're the same old fallible creatures we've always been, and we are CERTAINLY not "smarter." Just look around at all the people who say and do and think foolish things, like expecting Paradise to exist here on earth today, yesterday or tomorrow! This is the height of foolishness, but ... unfortunately, that's a very human trait. We all WANT things to go well, but EXPECTING things to not go wrong is just plain unrealistic, and being unrealistic can and sooner or later WILL cost us, both individually and collectively.

We do what we do. It's the OTHER guy's choice what he does, and to expect him to behave as we WANT him to is utter nonsense, and a fact we'll be dealing with as long as mankind exists upon the earth. Just look around. Examples of this Truth abound today, and always will.

Shoot what you want or what you HAVE. The rest is up to forces we cannot EVER control, and there is NO way to prepare for others' stupidity and wrongfulness. That's just another factor we need to be mentally and otherwise prepared to deal with. And .... that'll never change, either. It's just life on this mortal plane.

[mallen]

I disagree with your first sentence blackwater (i finally finished my nachos, i like taking time and enjoying my nachos)

[fouronesix]

"Do you make your own defense rounds?"

Nope. As good as I am at making high quality reloads, I always have and always will use regular factory ammo for self defense. As to filling up a page with justification for that choice? Nope. Don't need to do that either.

Those type questions are usually a kind of loaded "fishing" expedition. Responses agreeing with the pre-determined conclusion are welcomed while responses disagreeing with the pre-determined conclusion are ignored or debated.

[cswpsi]

I don't know about casting my own HP's or using solid lead for SD loads, but I did load a general purpose 1.050 XTP's using 5 grains of power pistol for my Shield and CZ p-09. Both guns had zero issues.

Now instead of shooting 10 or 15 rounds of SD ammo a year I can load 100 rounds (new brass and XTPs being the bulk of the cost) for the price of 40. That means I can toss 500 rounds downrange, and truly learn how my pistol preforms with SD ammo.

ritepath, you can save even more if Hornady makes a HAP bullet in an equivalent weight as the XTPs you're loading. Just a thought.

[Good Cheer]

Home made? You bet.

[FLHTC]

My two cents: I use nothing but reloads in ALL my centerfire firearms. I do not like most factory centerfire ammo. Much of it is loaded too strong for my taste, I can't deal with too much recoil. Most of it does not use lead boolits. Even before I started pouring my own and joined Cast Boolits I discovered that all my firearms shoot boolits better than jacketed. Better accuracy, less powder required for the same velocity, less recoil. A flat point lead boolit of appropriate weight and velocity gives up nothing to a jacketed bullet for any application other than the really high velocity rifle rounds.

I am not at all sold on the idea that handgun rounds are useless without trendy $$$ defensive loads. I can see the logic where an expanding 9mm 124 grain bullet of good design and construction at 1050 fps would be preferable to an FMJ that just zips through. I cannot see the logic where a flimsy, light for caliber hollowpoint that has the BCE of a pillow would be superior to an FMJ or lead solid at the same velocity. Low pressure rounds such as .32 Auto, .380 Auto, and .38 Special just don't have the velocity to make an expanding bullet consistently effective yet that is exactly what we are told we must use, aberrations such as a 60 grain .32 Auto and 90 grain .38 Special.

My defensive handgun rounds all use hard lead flat point bullets and are thoroughly tested for accuracy and velocity. They consist of a 76 grain .32 Auto at 885 fps, a 160 grain .38 Special at 875 fps, and a 122 grain 9mm at 1,000 fps. As to arguments some might make that I am creating especially deadly ammo these are essentially nineteenth century bullets driven to average velocity.

This is why this argument and many other on this forum fail. I can't imagine anything more ridiculous than to compare a light hollow point to a pillow. By your own admissions, you are crafting a solid lead projectile, which you claim has superior performance over a light for caliber, hollow point. Can this safely be interpreted as you not being satisfied with the lethal performance of factory ammunition? Wouldn't this seem as though you weren't going to be satisfied with merely stopping your assailant and that you had crafted your own ammunition in order to kill him?

[mallen]

"Do you make your own defense rounds?"


Nope. As good as I am at making high quality reloads, I always have and always will use regular factory ammo for self defense. As to filling up a page with justification for that choice? Nope. Don't need to do that either.

Those type questions are usually a kind of loaded "fishing" expedition. Responses agreeing with the pre-determined conclusion are welcomed while responses disagreeing with the pre-determined conclusion are ignored or debated.

I disagree with this one also, as before this conversation, I would have tried to bare the cost of enough factory made ammo to practice with, but no have chosen to use my own reloads. the ones i spend extra time on of course.

[MaryB]

You need to practice with your defense rounds so that $30 just turned into $500 a year while cast bullet reloads would be a fraction of that

I couldn't agree more but a shooting trial would be specific to the act, not everything you do. With all the factory ammo available today, why is it necessary to reload a cylinder or magazine full of ammunition for your self defense weapon? Do you have a guarantee that the prosecutor wouldn't present that same argument to the jury? A box of factory ammunition for a self defense weapon at most, costs $30. A 15 round magazine will hold $10 worth. You are going to convince a jury that you reload to save that $10 when you are carrying a $500 gun? You are comparing the conscious decision to carry factory ammunition, to hesitating when confronted. You better hire a slick attorney.

[Digital Dan]

Well, OK then. Let us eschew firearms and use swords, pikes, daggers or perhaps a mace, hammer or short dagger. Or a dog? Just a suggestion...

[mallen]

what is that in response to?

[Digital Dan]

This thread in general. The premise of the debate specifically.

[mallen]

erm. cause you would get shot?

[Digital Dan]

Don't know what you mean by that.

If someone wishes to defend themselves with deadly force then they should do so with the very best skills and equipment available. Why would anyone wish to give even minor advantage to someone bent on mayhem?

The concerns expressed about lawyers and such are without merit. Explain the concept wherein a dead bad guy shot with an "exotic" bullet will curry special concern as compared to another bad guy who just interfered with the lawful flight of a load of buckshot. Please. The argument, if any is specious at best and I'm being generous.

[mallen]

i mean, using a 2.5' sword, against a 10' away bullet, well end the person with the sword being shot.

[prs]

Well, your Honor, its like this here; if'n I gotta put a fellow human bean down, I wants t' do it right quick. Wouldna want the poor bastage to suffer.

prs