The quiet .30-30

[35remington]

Given that my 35 Remington loads that noticeably exceed the SAAMI spec will get 12 to 13 reloads before a head separation is imminent and I really don't like shooting loads that heavy......I'd really have to question whether any load that gets only five reloadings before a head separation is prudent.

The 35 case has a larger interior head area than the 30-30 does, and if 30-30 cases are separating after only five loadings, and discounting a too long headspace measurement.......those loads are way too hot. Time to not shoot those any more.

[Hickory]

I knew a guy who tried to get his 30-30 to shoot as fast as a 308.
Turns out he lost an eye and half his face. He should have got a 308.

[Yodogsandman]

My quietest load so far with the 311041 clone, the lee 309-170F is 2.7gr Bullseye. Most accurate was 8.0gr Unique. 8.0gr Unique was great in the Lyman 311291 and RCBS 30-180SP, too.

I've switched down to a lee 309-113F, 2.7gr Bullseye...too much fun! Like a .22 short. Very quiet!

[Digital Dan]

Too bad the OP does not have TrailBoss to include in his work-up as it seems to shoot with low acoustic report and still get the velocity he needs.

prs

actually I did have some TB until recently. Everytime I loaded with it I felt like, well, like I was pouring LEO nourishment into the case. I mean, doughnuts for gunpowder?

It it isn't bad powder but in the 4 cartridges I tried it in, different powders did better.

Will be loading some up tomorrow.

[MBTcustom]

I have gone as light as 4 grains BE and it exits the barrel, but accuracy in a 12" twist was only fair. A 10" twist may do better, or a lighter bullet.

Exqueeze me, but 12 twist is the Winchester. Marlin is 1-10 for older MG guns, and 1-10.5 for the later ones. Just pointing that out.

[John Van Gelder]

The loads I was using back in 1968 where right from the Lyman manual and below the maximum load listed. At that time. The gun was a brand new Mod 94 Winchester, one of a serise of octagon barrel guns they produced then. My bullet was the 311291 GC over 30 gr. of IMR3031 (the current manual lists 28.5, the old manual listed 31 as the max.) It is a given that the 94 Winchester in .30-30 is hard on cases, full length sizing also contributes to shortening case life, in the 94. As I recall it was a batch of Remington brass that I had the problems with. Comparing the .35 Remington with the .30-30 is apples and oranges, the .35 is a lower pressure round, and to the best of my knowledge the 94 was never chambered in that caliber. The Marlin 336 rifles have a different lock work and tend to be easier on cases.

I have been reloading for almost 60 years now and have never blown up a gun, I follow the manual listings, work up slowly to upper end loads and see no reason to push the limits. If you need more power then go to a more powerful cartridge. But I have seperated .30-30 cases in the 94 Winchester after just a few reloads and with relatively low pressure loads.

[John Van Gelder]

I would be a little careful about using very light loads of the fast burning powders like Bulls Eye. There are reports of light load detonation, there is some contraversy about this topic. Here is a link to an interesting article: http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm

Another article, as you can see no one is really sure what happens, only that it can happen: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/blowups.htm

[35remington]

Nobody has ever reported a problem using such loads with Bullseye in rifles. It seems to be a double charge pistol phenomenon. The warning against the use of Bullseye for this purpose is unnecessary.

You missed the part where I said I loaded the 35 beyond spec and still got better case life than five firings, which is unacceptable.

Due to larger base area and a lockup no stronger than a 94 comparison of 35 to 30-30 actually was more than fair and not at all apples to oranges. Point was that loads separating after five firings are way too hot. FL sizing if done correctly s no limitation to case life in lever guns. The load is the culprit if the case fits the chamber as it should.

[John Van Gelder]

35remington

You obviously did not read the attached articles. And again comparing the .35 Remington used in some other firearm than the .30-30/ 94 winchester is not a valid comparison.

And if you are over loading your gun your are violating the basic tenants of re-loading. Probably not a good thing to suggest to many of the posters here who do not have a half century+ of reloading experience.

Depemding on case construction and there are a lot of variances in case manufacture, it is quite possible to suffer seperation with just a few reloads at reasonable pressures.

The possability of detonation with "squib" loads is well documented. I personally do not have an opinion one way or the other, but over time feel it is best to err on the side of caution.

Again since you have not read the articles, I will concede that there is a reference in those articles to a controlled experiment conducted by the folks at Allient where they tried to reproduce a detonation using Bulls Eye and were unable to do so.

My warning here is that the reloading manuals, which are produced under controlled conditions, have upper and lower limits for good reason. Go beyond those in either direction at your own peril. "Abandon all hope yea who enter here!" .. Dante's Inferno.

[MT Chambers]

If it were me, I'd just get a good PCP air rifle in .25 or .30 cal.

[35remington]

Please show me where "detonations" occurred using Bullseye powder in rifles using light charges. Your links did far more to refute the idea than support it.

Since my own 94's in 30-30 and 7-30 do not suffer such terribly short case life with reasonable non wimpy loads, I can only wonder at what you are doing. Something is occurring you haven't mentioned yet. Factory 30-30s just back out primers in rifles with excessive headspace because not enough pressure occurs to occasion head stretch. I can only conclude your problem is headspace and pressure, or just pressure alone.

Getting five reloads out of a 30-30 case before they separate is an uncommon event when loaded prudently. With the price and availability of cases these days that's as it should be. Have to disagree the comparison of calibers was not relevant as it was in context with my own 336's and 94's in the two cartridges. Loaded prudently the 94 should not experience extra short case life as a matter of course.

[Digital Dan]

No, I think there are no more air rifles in my future. The first still functions after 50+ years. And I have enough guns to amuse me presently.

John Van G., the issue of low charge blow ups is certainly a topic of heated debate, I'll grant that. The human condition being what it is, I'm more inclined to believe the labs that cannot replicate the occurrence rather than speculation. There are things to do and not do whilst pursuing the endeavor certainly, but light loads in modest cases is not a hazard if common sense is applied and double charges are avoided. I have been doing it for decades in a wide variety of cases with many different bullets, and will continue to do so. My inquiry went to the specific point that I have not done this to such a degree with the .30-30 and was looking for some guidance on loads for a specific bullet. That question has been adequately answered I think and by people that have traveled the same path.

I do think there are some oddities in the world of intermediate burn rate powders and more than a few slow powders. Blue Dot comes to mind, as does Trail Boss. The former apparently has some idiosyncrasies related to load density that present as counter intuitive pressure curves. IMR suggests clearly that compressing Trail Boss is not a good idea and other powders such as H110/WW296 are not to be used for reduced loads. It goes on....and on....and on. What I have seen with Bullseye is that it is predictable, and unlikely to suffer erratic behavior due to variations of load density.


And lastly, I did read the articles.

[prs]

actually I did have some TB until recently. Everytime I loaded with it I felt like, well, like I was pouring LEO nourishment into the case. I mean, doughnuts for gunpowder?

It it isn't bad powder but in the 4 cartridges I tried it in, different powders did better.

Will be loading some up tomorrow.

Understood. The TB load with such light boolit may not meet your standard for "minute of pig".

prs

[ThatFishGuy]

I load the lee 309-115gr bullet in my 30-30 with really good results. I'll have to double check my data but Im using just above 7gr Unique. I tried TB but the unique was better for my rifle. The report seems slightly louder than a 22lr, but more boom than a crack. I've shot it out to about 100yds. No measured groups but it kills cans like a champ. I also used it to take a bobcat last year.

[BCB]

I really never much got involved with the “quiet” loads for anything, but as I read this thread, I thought, why not?...

So I got some of my Lee C309-150F and sized and checked them to 0.309” and lubed with a very thin coat of Alex…

Not wanting to stick a boolit in the barrel, I started with 5.0 grains of Bullseye as this seems to be a powder of choice for much reduced loads in many cartridges. I worked my way down to 3.2 grains and stopped at that, although I maybe could go lower—but I really didn’t want to pound a slug out of the barrel…

I started by shooting at only 50 feet as I was shooting over a chrony at that time. I am shooting them in a T/C Contender Super 14”…

Results:

3.2 grains…712 fps
3.5 grains…750 fps
4.0 grains…841 fps
4.5 grains…889 fps
5.0 grains…990 fps

The best accuracy was with the 3.2 and 4.5 grains loads. The 4.5 grain-load shot nearly a one-holer at 25 yards and right at the 1” at 50 yards…
(The 5.0 grain-load shot at the 1" mark also, but accuracy was not as good as the 4.5 grain-load at 25 yards)

The velocities are interesting if you look at the number of fps increases between powder increases…

The red dot on the target is ½” diameter…

Although, I don’t think I would call this a “quiet” load as it is NOT too quiet. Headphones are still helpful as I fired a round without them and it is quite loud…

Good-luck…BCB

[A pause for the COZ]

I had been playing with 32-20 bullets in my 30-30's for a while.
was getting good results with Bullseye and trail boss.
Then I got a rifle in 32-20 sorta made it a moot point so I have not done it in a while.
trail Boss is an amazing powder. Hope I start seeing it again soon.

[BCB]

I had been playing with 32-20 bullets in my 30-30's for a while.
was getting good results with Bullseye and trail boss.
Then I got a rifle in 32-20 sorta made it a moot point so I have not done it in a while.
trail Boss is an amazing powder. Hope I start seeing it again soon.

With 8.0 and 9.0 grains of TB and the Lee C309-150F I was getting 1142 and 1192 respectively from the 30-30 Contender Super 14"...

Accuracy was good with the 8.0-grain load, but not great...

Good-luck...BCB

[Digital Dan]

Little followup on developments in short form:

3.3 grains of Bullseye went across the Chrony at an average of 827 fps, penetrated ~22" of damp sand. ES for 3 shots was 22 fps and there was no deformation of the bullet other than sand abrasion. I would characterize the sound as similar to a .22 WMR in volume though it did not have the sharp tone I associate with that round.

2.7 grains of Bullseye averaged 734 fps, about the same penetration, ES was 18 for three shots. Report would be roughly like that of a .22 LR, somewhere betwixt a SV and HV round from a rifle. No stuck in barrel issues and I will probably drop the charge once more to see what occurs around 2.4 and 2.1 grains.

Will also check accuracy on the former loads as a next step. No indication of bullet instability in the paper I shot thru (not a target) or in the form of abrasion on the bullets from the sand berm. No targets today due to rain.

Bullet was ALOX lubed, dusted with motor mica, gas checked and hardness of ~10.5 BHN.

[highpower]

2.7gr of Bullseye and a Barrys .312 (32cal) Hollow Base wadcutter...I have shoot 1000's of these.....have killed dozens of possums with this load..very quiet