Revolver cylinder hard to turn

[Turbinedoctor]

Hi guys, a newbie here with a question. I have just started casting boolits and shooting them. I am using a Lee 158 gr SWC with gas check mold, sizing through a Lyman 4500 using .358" sizer and Thompson blue angel lube. My first batch of bullets does not look that bad but started looking better as I went along. Lube and sizing seems to be fine. I am loading with 9.5 gr IMR4227 and CCI magnum primers. I do find that they don't burn all of the powder but it has gotten better since I left Winchester and went to CCI primers. The main issue I am having is after about 35 rounds fired through a clean gun the cylinder is hard to turn to the point it will not move when cocking the hammer back with the thumb. I have a new S&W 686 with about 400 - 500 round through it. Jacketed bullets do just fine but my cast bullets are the problem.

My thought is either the lube or powder residue or a combination of the two is building up on the face of the cylinder and or the forcing cone. I am able to wipe these areas with my finger when it gets tight and it seems to work better for the next 6 shots. Has anybody had issues like this before? What should I look for as a remedy?


Thanks, Durwood

[Magana559]

Check for dirt under the extractor star. Unburnt powder can bind up a tight wheel gun quick !

[Turbinedoctor]

The area under the extractor star is clean. It seems to be on the front of the cylinder since I can wipe it with my finger and it works better for a while. Does lube build up in this area? Could the IMR 4227 not burning all the way be part of the problem?

I am guessing this is not a common problem with cast bullets in revolvers.

[runfiverun]

no it's not all that common.
you definitely have something building up there the question is what does it feel like to you.
dry and powdery or is it more soft and sticky?
my guess is that is a pretty low load for the powder and it's leaving soot behind.

[Turbinedoctor]

It doesn't really feel sticky, maybe sooty. This is the first time using 4227. I started with 11gr, really dirty "Unburnt powder left behind" accuracy not so good. Dropped to 10,5 little bit better, then 10 even better now at 9.5 and even better. I have never had to drop a load this far. Is it possible I went to far? This is some really old powder and maybe it is just normally a dirty burning powder. Would love to try 2400 but as everyone here knows, if you don't already have it you aint going to get it.

Thanks, Durwood

[cbrick]

Welcome to CastBoolits Durwood,

Sounds much like boolit lube build up on the cylinder base pin. Gets gummy after a while, I rarely clean my match revolver bores but the cylinder gets removed and cleaned (and lubed) after every firing. Keep the base pin clean and a small amount of a good grease on it and your problem should go away.

Rick

[bosterr]

We have 6 686/586's in the family and all get sticky cylinders like yours. I use half Thompson's Blue Angel and half White Label's 50/50. Powder is WC820 with mag primers. Lube builds up inside the cylinder bore/crane area and gets hard to turn especially in cold weather. Tip your revolver muzzle up and apply a liberal amount of Break Free around the center bore while turning the cylinder. While this will get you back into action, it really requires the removal of the yoke and cylinder from the gun to do a good job.

[Turbinedoctor]

Thanks guys, I will give these tips a try. As far as cleaning I know how to get the cylinder off the swing out arm but haven't figured out how to get the star ejector out of it yet. Does it just unscrew or something?

[merlin101]

I tried 4227 years ago in my Dan Wesson .357 and had a similar problem, changed powder to Win. 296 and never looked back! I bet if I looked in the back of the closet I would find a very dusty can of 4227. I gotta admit that it seemed to be very consistent but I know it was real dirty.

[bosterr]

The star extractor doesn't need to be removed.

[Turbinedoctor]

We have 6 686/586's in the family and all get sticky cylinders like yours. I use half Thompson's Blue Angel and half White Label's 50/50. Powder is WC820 with mag primers. Lube builds up inside the cylinder bore/crane area and gets hard to turn especially in cold weather. Tip your revolver muzzle up and apply a liberal amount of Break Free around the center bore while turning the cylinder. While this will get you back into action, it really requires the removal of the yoke and cylinder from the gun to do a good job.

I had to re-read this to get what he was saying. I see where the star extractor does not need to be removed. I clean this area and lube during my cleanings.

I shot 30 rounds through it today after not cleaning after the last time and it shot well and free moving. Accuracy is even better. I have found in the past that some of my guns shoot more accurate when they get a little fouling. Still being new to cast bullets with lube, I have read where people are talking about letting the barrel get seasoned with the lube and things work better. Is there a general consensus about this being true. I am not seeing any leading during cleaning.

Thanks, Durwood

PS Still so much to learn but I am liking casting my own bullets so far.

[Char-Gar]

Yes, I have had that problem and it is caused by powder buildup on the face of the cylinder and root of the barrel. This is more pronounced on revolvers with a very narrow barrel/cylinder gap.

The solution is to change powders. 4227 is not good for your purposes, it is a rifle powder. It does have some applications in revolvers, but not in the 38/357

Use Bulleye for low end loads. Unique or AA5 for mid level loads and 2400 or AA9 for magnum loads. Life is easier when the right componets are used.

[runfiverun]

clean?
I have a couple of guns I haven't cleaned the barrel on since umm,,,,, since umm the 80's or 90's.

[Turbinedoctor]

Yes, I have had that problem and it is caused by powder buildup on the face of the cylinder and root of the barrel. This is more pronounced on revolvers with a very narrow barrel/cylinder gap.

The solution is to change powders. 4227 is not good for your purposes, it is a rifle powder. It does have some applications in revolvers, but not in the 38/357

Use Bulleye for low end loads. Unique or AA5 for mid level loads and 2400 or AA9 for magnum loads. Life is easier when the right componets are used.

This is my first try at loading some of my cast bullets and 4227 was the only powder on hand that would fill the case the most of what was listed in the manual. I have been looking for 2400 but I am unable to find any. I have some HP38 and I think I saw a listing for that powder.

[Turbinedoctor]

clean?
I have a couple of guns I haven't cleaned the barrel on since umm,,,,, since umm the 80's or 90's.

I am almost that way with my 6mm deer rifle. Shoot it maybe 5-6 time a year and clean it every 10 years. Always hits where I want it too.

[Turbinedoctor]

Since my 686 is new and I haven't done so yet, I think I will measure the cylinder barrel gap. That is where the problem seems to be.

It has been brought to my attention that I failed to mention that I am shooting 38 Spl in a 357 cylinder. Sorry that was an over sight on my part.

[Char-Gar]

This is my first try at loading some of my cast bullets and 4227 was the only powder on hand that would fill the case the most of what was listed in the manual. I have been looking for 2400 but I am unable to find any. I have some HP38 and I think I saw a listing for that powder.

HP38 is the same powder as 231 and can be used anywhere Bulleye would have application.

I am old school and clean my firearms every time after firing. A dirty firearm will fail you sooner or later a clean and lubricated firearm will not.

[DanOH]

This may be totally unrelated to your problem but I once had a revolver bind up to the point of not turning.
Turns out that the ejector rod had unscrewed itself. Screwed it back in and all was well.

[Char-Gar]

This may be totally unrelated to your problem but I once had a revolver bind up to the point of not turning.
Turns out that the ejector rod had unscrewed itself. Screwed it back in and all was well.

This happens often enough to be a concern and a place to check is problems occur. Older Smith and Wessons did this often as the rod unscrewed the same way the cylinder rotated. Smith and Wesson changed the direction of the threads and this ceased to be as common. It will still happen if the threads are not a good match. The cure is to put a small drop of stock finishing oil like Tru-Oil on the threads, tighten and leave alone for a few days. This is not a place to use Lock-Tite as get it to tight and you can twist off the rod trying to unscrew it.

[Turbinedoctor]

This happens often enough to be a concern and a place to check is problems occur. Older Smith and Wessons did this often as the rod unscrewed the same way the cylinder rotated. Smith and Wesson changed the direction of the threads and this ceased to be as common. It will still happen if the threads are not a good match. The cure is to put a small drop of stock finishing oil like Tru-Oil on the threads, tighten and leave alone for a few days. This is not a place to use Lock-Tite as get it to tight and you can twist off the rod trying to unscrew it.

These are good points to consider, and I have already eliminated the ejector.


I think I will try a different powder with the same lube to see if that helps and if not, then change the lube.

My sizer came with a stick of black moly. Ever try any of that stuff.
There was also a stick of Lyman orange lube which I can't find.


Durwood