The Lost and forgotten Lyman 358477

[Beerd]

and still another "must have" mould.
..

[Cherokee]

Back in the 70's I did a side by side test of the Lyman 358477 and RCBS 150 SWC with 6-8 different guns and several loads. For me, the 358477 worked out best. I have even run it in full 357 Mag loads without leading and great accuracy.

[MT Gianni]

RCBS has done a few 150's. IIRC, the 150 K or the KT is the twin to the 477.

[rbuck351]

I have an older Lyman 2 cav mold that drops them at 152grs. It is my absolute favorite for the 38spl. I shoot it in a 4" M28smith with 5.2grs of 231 for about 1050 fps. I don't remember where I got that load as I've been using it for 30/35 years but it's probably a little hot for a light frame 38spl. It sure does shoot good in the M28 though. I wish I had a 4 Cav. What does the NOE copy weigh in coww?

[rintinglen]

Here's some data from RCBS Cast Bullet Manual No. 1 for the 38-150 swc in 38 special. These top end loads are definitely plus P, but I have shot thousands of the WW-231 starting load and quite a few of the 4.0 grain Bullseye load as well from a 1960's era pencil barrel S&W M-10. I would not try the top end loads in any 38 revolver not rated for plus p.

POWDER START MAX
IMR 4227 11.6 12.6
H110____ 9.7--10.7
2400____ 9.2--10.2
231_____ 4.5--5.0
BULLSEYE__ 4.0--4.5
700X____ 3.5--4.0

[Bucking the Tiger]

I have the NOE 5 cavity version of this mold, their 360477, and it is so ideal that almost all .38 Specials and the majority of .357 Magnums I load are with this bullet. The driving bands are big and it will shoot good at distance.

[CastingFool]

Found a great article by Glen Fryxell about the 358477.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell358477HP.htm

[tazman]

Thanks for posting the link. It's a good read.

[358 Win]

I have both the Lyman 358477 SWC and 358156 SWCGC in four cavity molds. The 477 mold produces a 154 grain bullet which I size to 3592". My absolute favorite for full house loads is of course the 358156 which produces a 164 grain bullet fully dressed with lube and gas checks installed but for just bumming around the woods the 358477 gets the nod. I shoot both handguns and rifles in .357 Magnum so a lot of lead makes it's way downrange every year. A charge of 5.0 grains of Bullseye or Red Dot in a magnum case does 1038 fps from my 4" S&W 19-4 and 1228 fps from my 1894C Marlin. No sight adjustments were necessary in either weapon when sighted in for full house loads using the 358156 bullet. Groups with Red Dot are a skosh better than with Bullseye but I sure would not want to live of the difference. I'm using Bullseye because I have over 4 pounds of it and my Red Dot powder is used primarily for my 12 gauge shotgun target loads.

With ACC#9, using a book load of 15.0 grains and the 358156 does 1800 fps from the 1894C and 1368 fps from the same S&W 4" 19-4. I have several other .358 molds but could shoot the above two bullets for the rest of my days and could not be happier.

358 Win

[aharlow]

I have the 2 cavity HP version of the NOE 360477 mold and love it! What a great looking mold and boolit it cast. It's like a work of art... almost didn't want to get her dirty..lol. I load with Unique with my 38 Spec. loads and when doing 357 Mag i love Alliant's 2400. I load my 357 Mag loads a little light for my Colt Python (My Grandpa's side arm back in the 50's) but do have a Ruger GP100 6" stainless 357 Mag on order so i can load some heavies for hunting and some hotter 357 Mag Loads along with 38 Spec +P loads. My Python is my baby and I really don't want to push her too hard. Been in the family a long time.

[nitro-express]

I came across a 358477 mold at a gunshow, it was covered with some thick hard black ???? but the price was right. It cleaned up nicely and it casts better than any of my other molds. It dropped oblong boolits, so I adjusted the pins to take out the shake. I tried various loads, in 357 cases but leading was always an issue. I eventually got my gun to shoot with 358156 and had abandoned the 477.

The other day I was having issues with a pot of alloy, just wouldn't cast, so I grabbed the 477 and gave it a shot. I was having such good luck that I cast about 70. Instead of remelting, I decided to size and lube them for a buddy. They looked so good, I just had to test some. I used 3.9 gr of Universal in a 357 case, and was pleased when they did not lead. Not a powerhouse load and some accuracy issues, but no leading. The cylinder on my Colt SAA has large throats, so I size to 359. The 359 sizing die just barely touches the bullet, I do wish that they would drop a bit larger.

In previous posts it was mentioned that there are different flavors of this bullet. Here is a picture of what mine look like.

[Scharfschuetze]

I also use the RCBS 38-150-SWC. It's one of the first moulds that I bought and it's still dropping perfect boolits. To my eye, it's about the same design as the Lyman 358477.

I load it to 800 fps in the 38 Special and 1,000 fps in the 357 and it makes for a fine plinking and small game/vermin load. Unique and 231 both propel these loads.

[nitro-express]

I had a bunch of bullets given to me and I thought they were from a RCBS 38-150-SWC, so I bought one as well as the 358477. When I compare mine the 38-150 (left) looks a bit more Keith like than the 477 (right). Both these molds have a long production run, there are variations in each style.



My quest for an appropriate cast boolit mold for something that wouldn't lead in my revolver has me to the point I now have 5 molds.

• a Lyman 358345, not much good in my 357, but works in my 9mm Browning Long.
• 358477
• RCBS 38-150-SWC
• 358156 - my go to for the 357.
• RCBS 38-158-SWC, leads like crazy (same load as 358156), and I think that is because the front band on my 358156 is undersize, about 355, so it matches the groove for my gun better.

I only bought one new, so my investment wasn't too much.

I'm new to casting, still learning, making mistakes, and leaning from those mistakes. Just this weekend I was able to salvage a batch of alloy that wouldn't work. Melted it, -AGAIN- , took it to 700, fluxed it, dropped the temp to 600 and skimmed off 2 > 3 oz of some lumpy stuff and it works good now. Originally I'd mixed in a bunch of what I thought was babbitt with lead and COWW. What I got was soft nozzle plugging junk that wouldn't cast worth a ****. Interestingly, removing the funny looking dross actually raised the BHN 2 numbers. Like I said, still learning and not understanding some things at all.

I've been studying phase diagrams for Pb, Sn and Sb and so far all I've got is a headache.

[nitro-express]

Back in the 70's I did a side by side test of the Lyman 358477 and RCBS 150 SWC with 6-8 different guns and several loads. For me, the 358477 worked out best. I have even run it in full 357 Mag loads without leading and great accuracy.

I've been able to get accuracy, but leading is another story. I don't think the boolit is the problem, more likely the fool doing the reloading. I do have one question, what COL were you using? Did you crimp in the groove or over the front of the first band. I looked a little more closely at the Lyman data and noticed a 1.510" COL, which means that they didn't crimp in the groove.

[Forrest r]

There's a lot of different versions of the "Keith" style bullet in general let alone the different designs from the same mold maker. Some of the 35cal "Keith" style bullets that I cast/shoot.
[IMG][/IMG]

Left/red: A lyman 358477
2nd left/silver: A cramer #26
3rd left/red: A h&g #51
far right/green: A lyman 358439

That 358477 pictured above has the 3 equal drive bands and the round grease groove.

Typically I use the h&g #51 bullets in the 38spl's & the rest of them in both the 38spl and the 357. I prefer the rounded grease grooved lyman molds simply because the rounded grease groove makes a stronger/more supported bullet base. Of those 4 bullets the cramer #26 has the top 2 drive bands that are equal & a large, thick bullet base. The h&g #51 & 358438 have larger middle drive bands.

The lyman 358477's have always preformed well for me. Used to use a 3.2gr load of winchester's aa452 & the lyman 358477, that load was mild enough to plink with all day in any 4" bbl'd 38spl & could chew the x-ring out of any of the nra pistol targets including the b-19 in a target pistol.

[NoZombies]

I've got one of the more rounded nose variant molds, and a more square nose variant. The square nose variant still had the ideal moniker, indicating it's the older mold. I've found little difference in accuracy, but I prefer the looks of the squarer nose.

[nitro-express]

Glad to see this web site back up without the security warning.

I bought a NOS (2013) Ruger Blackhawk in 357, base model with the 4.6" barrel. As I suspected, my Colt with its large throats and small groove diameter wasn't helping. The Ruger has throats and groove in the 358 region, both about the same. Loads that were not any good in the Colt are decent in the Ruger. I only have a 357 H sizer (closer to 3575) and a 359 H sizer. 359 boolits would be 0.001" oversize but they seem to work a bit better than 3575.

Bottom line: somewhat amazed at how much difference a small difference in throat and groove diameter makes. Had some 38 spl loads with Speer 158 RN swagged that were poor in the Colt, work pretty nice in the Ruger.

The 358146 load that works real well in the Colt also works well in the Ruger. (9.0 gr WW 571, CCI 550)

[tazman]

I used to use the 358477 a lot. I have since switched to the NOE 360-150-SWC. It weighs the same and has 3 larger driving bands that give me better accuracy.
Here is a picture from the NOE site of the boolit.

[skeettx]

Yes, the 358477 is an awesome bullet for the 38 Special and you can push it to 1000 fps in the 4" Smith

[marlin39a]

The first mold I got back in 1977 was a used 2 cavity 358477. I still have it and use it. 3.5 gr of HP-38 in the 38 Spl.