Starter Loads for 223 and 308 using Alliant1200R or Accurate2495

[stephen m weiss]

Hi,
I am new to CB and would like some help with starter recipes from some experienced cb reloaders. I read the "cb for military calibers" or so, but it does not mention the 223, and not my powders either.

My Molds: Lee 309-320, Lee309-160, Lee 225-55

My Powders: Alliant 1200R, Accurate2495

My Lead: 40lbs 3% antimony, 5 lbs 30% antimony, 5 lbs linotype.

For those not familiar with the 1200R, its a mixed sperical powder, with grains from about .005 to .030 inch diameter, pretty sticky to stop sifting i guess. It's .07cc/grain, pretty dense. The 2495 is a stick powder for heavy 30-06 type loads, about .076cc/grain.

I reload at home but shoot 4 hours away at my land. With my progressive press, it's easy for me to make lots of rounds, but not easy to make-test-make-test etc.
So, please suggest starting loads for these bullet/powder/lead sets if possible. Since I am new to reloading, I got what was available in powder, not what may have been optimal.

My purpose is plinking/small game for minimal noise. I do not want to use gas checks or paper wrapping at this time. I have tried using crumpled toilet paper packing the powder to the primer end of the case for better ignition, but I cant really tell if it helps. Its slower, and hard to unload using my impact puller, so would prefer avoiding that.
I target shoot into oil-sand in a home depot bucket to save the scraps, so would prefer soft alloy for the heavy bullets at least.

So, looking for starter loads (bullet weight, powder type/weight, leady alloy)

Thanks loads!

smw

[runfiverun]

2495 is right in the 4895 family.
it's data can be used.
I would suggest 16 grs with a tuft of Dacron to start. in the 223.
18 should work the Ar rifle but you gotta start weight sorting.

28 to 30 with a tuft of Dacron in the 308 will shoot well too, 28.5 is my number one most accurate load in the 1900 fps area in the 30 cal rifles.

[stephen m weiss]

Thx for the reply!

Ok, so a tuft of Dacron.. that's a trade name for polyester fiber for garments. Thus, the equivalent of a chemically inert polymer packing. Gotcha.

Is lead alloy an issue? Or will soft stuff work?

Either way, I will load up a box of each using packing to test using the loads you suggested.

Thx again,

smw

[runfiverun]

plain ol ww's and a little tin.
I water drop them to give them a little more hardness and because it's easy.

you might want to take a quick look at Larry gibsons sticky on the use of fillers so you have a good grasp on their proper use.
nothing to be afraid of just some guidelines.

that 2495 isn't a second rate powder by any means some just overlook it's usefulness.
I have shot some of the smallest groups I ever have using it in my 223 varmint rifle.

[Photog]

Just got back from the range today shooting 30-06 with 21grains of Alliant 1200R.
180gr 309-180round lee mold, dropping at 175gr with 3-5%Sb. I gas checked them with Hornady and sized to .309. Lubed with 40/40/10 from While label lubes, seated out kinda long.
From an M1903A3 it shot 1.25 inch groups at 25 yds. Didn't get a chance to chrono them but the felt like 1800fps.
Cases sealed the camber well, and were cool to the touch right after firing, so maybe a little low on pressure. Primers were only mildly flattened, using LR primers. Plenty of room for more pressure IMO, and a very safe load. Enough recoil to let you know you fired a rifle, but nothing like a full house 30-06.
Accuracy was fine for the first test with this rifle. Gives you a starting point.

[stephen m weiss]

Hi popper, yeah I got too much hardener, but I didnt mix it in. I have the ingots and wonder what to mix up for what job.

Thanks Photog! That's so close to what I am doing. I have built up 5 round test bags varying in lee dipper sizes from 17 gr to 30 gr with 2in square toilet paper filler using the 2495, wax lubed. I dont have gas checks or a sizer yet. I am hoping the tp works ok. I was getting similar accuracy results in a local 18yd range. I was using about 50% scrap, 10% superhard and 40% lino. I was too dump to waterdrop, but they are aged 2 wks now.

thx, smw

[stephen m weiss]

Oh, wifey says no lead in the oven and I gotta agree. We have 5 kids... I plan to make a betty crocker oven with some wood, tin foil and light bulb. That should fit loads of bullets.

[popper]

Get Bumpo's alloy calc from the site here. I use 3% Sb + a tad of Cu for my 308 @ 2400 fps, WD & GCd. You should be able to add a bit of lead free solder (Sn + Cu) for a good alloy. I don't have range scrap but think it is more like 2%. Don't have any use for a 223.
I don't think you will get near the 425F in the B.C oven, but it might work with a 100W infrared bulb. Watch for slump. You can WD from the mould and get almost as good results.
Use doggy toy, old doll dacron for the filler, it doesn't cause fires.

[stephen m weiss]

TP doesnt cause fires. Going from 1000 atomospheres pressure to 1 in a microsecond blows it out. I have inspected a lot of it after firing. There is no charring even at 30x magnification. It's not even close. I dont see how being in the desert at 120F and 0 humidity could change it.