anyone ever thought of putting in a GC backwards?

[mistere01]

Seems to me that if a gas check was put in with the open mouth facing the powder it would act like a lip seal and completely seal the bore and allow the use of dead-soft lead as is used for muzzle-loader balls. I've tried many variations of cast projectiles and always ended up with severe leading due to the fact that the only lead I have is pure (5 BHN) lead. My molds don't have grooves that can accommodate checks, and I haven't thus far found any molds available that do, any comments?

[cdngunner]

There are Plain Base check makers which use very thin material as a gas check...should work for your bullet.

Most leading is caused by undersized bullets.

If all else fails go the powder coat way.

[GhostHawk]

Ok, the question then being "what keeps it where it needs to be?"

Gas checks crimp onto a shank on the boolit. Reversed there is no crimp, no attachment point, nothing.

You going to superglue them and trust your life that a gas check won't come off, be left in the barrel and cause a catastrophic failure?

You maybe could take 2, put them back to back, and solder them together, crimp one on, the other makes your super seal.

But what if one fails?

My Gas Checks seem to work just fine as is, they are crimped on tight, never seen one fall out of the muzzle.

Not me thank you.

[nhrifle]

I don't know if it would work or not, I could imagine scenarios where it would work or be a complete flop. I would say load up a few and try -- nothing is learned without risking failure!

[curator]

Backwards gas checks do work "somewhat" in straight-walled cases like ,45-70 and .38-55. I have even played with plain based boolit .357 and .44 Magnum loads using backwards gas checks with fair results. With a straight case there is no chance the check will fall away from the boolit base inside the case like it could with bottle-necked cases. My results showed a small advantage using the backwards gas check under a plain base boolit but not enough to warrant the extra step and expense. A thick felt wad or wax gas check worked as well.

[WILCO]

any comments?

Welcome aboard Mistere01!

As for your "leading" issues, a review of goals & practices may be in order.

[tjones]

Works great for straight cases only though!

[mold maker]

I wouldn't shoot them over a crony. A loose check could cost you big time.
IMHO they would exit the barrel even if loose. They would have a vacuum in front, chamber pressure behind, plus the weight of the boolit being pushed. After they exit, there is no telling where they will wind up.

[bangerjim]

You did not tell us what you are casting and what you are shooting them in. Most people only use GC's on hi velocity rifle loads and magnums. And not pure soft lead. You can easily find sourcs of lino and hardball and COWW's on here it very reasonable prices to harden up your soft.

Leading many times comes from mis-applicaition of the boolit to the barrrel. Wilco touched on that above. An undersized boolit can be just as bad as an oversized one. A GC will not protect your barrel from the tops of the grease grooves where they meet the rifling at higher velocities. You need some hardness in there. Slug your barrels 1st. Today fit is king, but soft is normally only used by the black powder shooting guys.

The only boolits I use GC's on are made from them because the boolits are designed to be used at higher velocities where gas cutting can occur. And I shoot 9-12Bhn for subsonics and 14 for rifles and powder coat everything. You can use Mars brand artist pencils (the standard) as a poorman's hardness testing system if you cannot swing the $$ of a hardness tester. Do a search on here for details and chart.

What are you using for boolit lube????? And what are you sizing to for your barrels?

As cdngunner said, if you cannot harden your lead, look into powder coating or HiTech. Those technologies are more forgiving when shooting dead soft lead.

Shop around! Sweeten your lead. Good luck and welcome.

bangerjim

[Yodogsandman]

Paper patching is also an option, or so I've heard. No experience with it myself.

[gpidaho]

Inverted gas checks have been used for years. Read Shooting the inverted gas checks page 120 of CAST BULLETS FOR BEGINERS & EXPERT by Joseph F. Brennan Jr. Available through the Cast Bullet Association GP

[Danderdude]

Y'all are missing the purpose of gas checks. It's not to separate the lead from the heat or pressure, but to act as a torque ring. The rifling has to impart many tens of thousands of RPM spin and velocity in a tiny fraction of a second. A crimped check helps make that happen. If anything, the gas check should be on the front of the bullet rather than the back. I now wonder if that's ever been tried with a wadcutter.

Theoretically, with a long enough barrel and slow powder you could get any non-checked bullet to shoot 4 or 5 thousand FPS, but that's impractical.

[azrednek]

I now wonder if that's ever been tried with a wadcutter.
.

A few years ago I posted here or the Handloaders forum. At the range I found what looked like the typical 358-148 WC and it had gas checks attached on both ends.

[Markbo]

I look forward to reading all about it when someone tries it very soon.

[mistere01]

Well, thank you all for the warm welcome, I've been lurking around here for quite some time, but just now getting to posting. I didn't share all the information that I should have regarding my leading issue, I apologize, it's a continuation from a chat session the other day where I was asking for advise on leading. You may laugh at me, but the leading issue I was having was in a 45 ACP 1911. The only lead I have available is pure soft lead that I use for black powder, and was attempting to branch out into metallic cartridges. That being said, I think I discovered the cause of my leading, and pride prevents me from revealing the cause. However, in answer to a question or two, the bbl measurements I took on the advise of another member resulted in .450/.445. I was sizing at .451. Powder coating was mentioned above, but the only type of powder coating I'm familiar with is the baked-on paint. Could someone educate me as to the use of this term as it applies to boolits please? Thanks

[Harter66]

It is exactly what you are thinking.

[mistere01]

Seriously? I've never heard of anyone doing that until now! So, regular powder coating as in Eastwood hotcoat? So you could have boolits that are yellow or blue or red or purple? What kind of deposits or smears does that leave in the barrel? Does it clean out readily with normal cleaning supplies? Does it cause any excess wear in the barrel? I'm full of questions as a result of my surprise, but I'll go see if there's a forum post on the topic instead of just asking blindly.

Thank you!

[Markbo]

There is more information on powder coating here than you could read in days.

[MBTcustom]

Yes it's been done. No it won't cause a catastrophic failure. (Read Hatchers notebook)
The check does very little to help drive a boolit to spin up. By the time the GC gets to the rifling, if the front of the boolit isn't already spinning, then you've got problems. It provides no help with a boolit that has stripped the rifling except to help hold back the gases that are behind it.

This might come as a shock, but the gas check does exactly that: check the gas at the base so it doesn't get between the boolit and the barrel.

[JeffinNZ]

I've tried putting them in backwards but I can never see what I'm doing. :-p