223/5.56 brass questions

[mikeinctown]

Hoping this is in the right place since it is mainly about brass and reloading.

I'm trying to learn about 223/5.56 brass and would like to find a source of info that I can refer to for general information on processing and reloading. Right now I am just getting into loading of handgun rounds, but my brothers in law all have rifles and I know I'll be on their list of people to hit up.

To be more specific, I am trying to figure out what the difference is between all the different headstamp brass, whether on is more desirable than another, or if it really doesn't matter.

I already assume that I'll have to deprime, tumble, trim, and possibly swage the primer pockets. However, I am seeing people anneal and maybe even take a few other steps that I really have no idea about. I see brass selling for a huge range of prices and as far as I can tell, the big difference seems to be headstamp or origin of the brass. I'd like to find out more about this so I don't wind up with a 30 pound box of weight only good for holding my bench down.

Thanks

[StratsMan]

If you'd like to start the 223/5.56 Reloading Learning Curve, you can't go wrong starting with Lake City brass... It will never be a boat anchor in your basement... Why?? Because there's LOTS of it available from numerous sources, and the U.S. military keeps creating more empties every day... If you had the $$$, you could easily find enough LC brass to outfit you and your family for the rest of your lives...

[dragon813gt]

Brass brand is like truck brands to some people. Use whatever you can get for a decent price since you are just starting out. You are going to screw up some cases. Only you can determine what brands work best for you.

[308gunman]

I like commercial brass. Military brass is usually thicker.

[GRUMPA]

I used to go through some pretty good amounts on a monthly basis, now its slowed down a tad. By far the easiest to get are 2 basic types, LC (Real good) and all the others (especially foreign garbage). I'll try and condense this the best I can.

LC (Lake City...Not Utah) is manufactured with what is known as Mil Spec. (Military Specifications) . They must manufacture things a certain way with certain materials Blah, Blah Blah. The end result is a uniformed product that must meet there standards and nobody elses, if it isn't the entire lot is now scrap. Also for the most part works real well as a parent case for other conversions.

Domestic brass.....for the most part they're right on par with the LC brass. Although with the surplus of LC brass why pay more. From my experiences they go for more $ and I'm cheap..

Foreign (What I call Garbage) is another matter entirely. I wont get any foreign brass at all, you learn your lesson real quick when you try and either use it or try and sell it. Some use a different mixture when making brass, higher or lower zinc content, different manufacturing technique etc. The end results vary so wildly in the finished product, real brittle brass, difficulty sizing, off center flash holes. I can almost write a book on the subject.

Prices are going to be from mild to wild depending on where you look. Many places don't have sites to advertise, which depend on word of mouth. Others have fancy sites with all the latest and greatest bells and whistles, but prices seem to be higher.....gee I wonder why.

If you hang around in the S&S section and just watch, the prices for the most part just aren't that bad.

Always stay away from mixed brass, I've had bitter sweet results with those, mostly the bitter part.

Most brass will do you OK for 223/5.56 loads, and you need to do your homework because THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2.

Annealing......Unless you really want to maximize the case and there's all of a sudden a black hole that's sucking in cases....I wouldn't bother. I anneal a majority of what I make but keep in mind I form them into something else.

Hopefully that should help you....

[Bzcraig]

I was going to suggest he search all Grumpa's posts and maybe PM you, but you have already shown up!

[mikeinctown]

GRUMPA, thanks for the info. The tip about the mixed brass is a good one, thank you. I also see why you would anneal the cases as well. At least with me not using it right now, I can buy as little or as much as I feel like and can be picky about headstamp.

Have you or anyone else come across any manuals or books that have a lot of info? The local shop has an AR book but I cannot look through them as they are wrapped.

[GRUMPA]

GRUMPA, thanks for the info. The tip about the mixed brass is a good one, thank you. I also see why you would anneal the cases as well. At least with me not using it right now, I can buy as little or as much as I feel like and can be picky about headstamp.

Have you or anyone else come across any manuals or books that have a lot of info? The local shop has an AR book but I cannot look through them as they are wrapped.

Almost any reloading book has what you need as far as information. You can also (In my mind the best source) go to the powder companies sites, and as far as I know have some real good, tested, safe data.

HINT: Always look at the weapon and look for the stamping on what it was made for. Some have 223 while some others have 5.56 cal. which is for safety. There is a reason for this, they are not the same critter, may look the same but 1 has higher pressure and speed than the other..

[runfiverun]

the 5.56 has a longer throat to deal with the higher pressure.
you can use 223 rounds in the 5.56 safely but you can have troubles the other way around.
this is exactly back wards of the 7.62 nato--308 win where the civilian round has a higher pressure rating.
my best advice to get started is to go buy a bag of commercial brass [win or rem] to get started with.
keep researching the subject while keeping an eye out for a batch of lake city brass.
this does 2 things, it gives you a foundation with the round, and allows you some time to learn what is what in regards to the tools associated with prepping military brass and the steps involved.

[triggerhappy243]

nothing has been said as to what kind of rifle this all will be shot in. and this is important. which is it?

[runfiverun]

I'm guessing an AR type rifle.

[Akheloce]

nothing has been said as to what kind of rifle this all will be shot in. and this is important. which is it?

I'm game... Why?

[mikeinctown]

I'm guessing an AR type rifle.

That would be correct, but not the cheaper $500 ones marked as .223. Would most likely (for me) be a Sig 516 or a BCM upper mated with a built lower. I would probably want to stick with processing the 5.56 stuff even though 223 is becoming increasingly cheap around here. 100 round boxes are less than $40. At the local shop, they are selling Federal 5.56 20 round boxes for $6.69. Now that I think about it, might be cheaper/same cost to buy those than it is to reload.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Reloading vs. buying is related to what components you buy. Generally speaking, your reloads will be more accurate, so that's another factor to figure in. You won't likely save money reloading, because you'll shoot more. This is especially true in AR type firearms, where semi auto and high capacity magazines combine to allow quick use of cartridges.

I have bought large quantities of not only lake city, but other US Armory labelled military surplus brass. Loaded thousands of rounds with it and have been totally satisfied.

If you're reloading for an AR, I would suggest getting a progressive reloader and a Dillon trim die and trimmer. It will take two passes through the reloader, but the rounds will be real nice and you can load them to your rifle's preferred powder charge and bullet weight.

[Akheloce]

Once a round is expended, it ceases to be either .223 or 5.56. The brass is the same. As mentioned earlier, mil brass is typically thicker, but that is not a hard fast rule. The only real difference between the two is the leade in the chamber, not the casing.

[triggerhappy243]

and a progressive reloading machine is not the "FIRST BEST" choice for a beginner to start of with. If one knows nothing about the whole concept of reloading, progressive presses provide avenues to miss details for "QUALITY" ammo. start with a single stage press........... please.

[EDG]

To some extent the brass that you find is the brass that you use.

1. I would pick a headstamp that is very common.
2. If buying dated military brass get all the same headstamp and date.
3. Buy a very large batch - at least 500 to 1000 cases at a whack
4. If you are fortunate to find nice commercial brass with no primer crimp you are ahead.

Depending on the type of crimp swager you use, you can injure your elbow and wrist if you do too many per day.
I did that once and it took my elbow about a year to get over the tendonitis. Very painful.

By buying large lots of high quality brass you get the luxury of not learning all the peculiars of second rate brass.

[mikeinctown]

Thanks for the tips EDG. I only know of the Dillon swage right now, though I am sure there are others on the market.

Is .06 each in quantities of 1,000 a decent price for cleaned/unprocessed LC brass? No idea as I've been buying my handgun brass for less than .04 each. (.40S&W for .02, 9mm for .02 and .45ACP for .04)

[GRUMPA]

Actually that's a pretty good price for LC brass...

[twc1964]

I like lc brass. It seems to stand up to repeated loadings and i always load mine to near mil-spec velocities. I prefer to practice with what i will be using when hunting or defending myself. Yes, it takes longer to prepare it for loading but imo its worth it. Ymmv