Blackhorn 209....does it really work?

[bubbapug1]

I like shooting black powder but I dislike the sense of urgency one must have to clean the guns immediately. Accurate powder makes some claims about Blackhorn 209 which sound appealing - like low fouling and non corrosive. Is this all hype or does Blackhorn really work like a smokeless powder??

[dondiego]

I received a free CVA Wolf inline .50 cal rifle. I am not familiar with inlines but it takes a 209 primer. I tried to shoot it with Blackhorn 209 but it wouldn't ignite the charge on several tries. It sure did set off the BP though! Some one said that I needed a different breech plug What?

[NSB]

I've used a lot of it and my friends use quite a bit of it also. We've never had a problem getting it to ignite and it does what it claims to do. You can shoot it all day without cleaning and it's non corrosive. From what I understand, it's actually a smokeless powder with a little stuff in it to make it smoke a little (very little smoke). With the right sabot and bullet combination I've been able to get five shot groups between and inch and a inch and a half off my shooting bench at 100yds. Sometimes bigger, up to just under two inches. I'm pretty satisfied with it. I also have a Savage ML2 smokeless muzzle loader and it even works quite well in that gun although I prefer other powders in that gun.

[n.h.schmidt]

I would give it a try. I have to admit the $32 for 10oz is alot for me. It depends on what your desires are.
n.h.schmidt

[bubbapug1]

I have a standard muzzle loader which uses percussion caps. Sounds like I would have ignition issues. Too bad as the stuff sounds clean. Cost per shot isn't too bad if you include the labor to clean out the black powder residual!!

[rodwha]

It might work if you used a small starter charge. But it would negate the cleanliness unless maybe it was Triple 7 that was used (5-10 grns).

There are some nipples on the market that use pistol/rifle primers. I have a custom set for my ROA that I'm dying to know if they'd work with 209...

[johnson1942]

my son has a custom inline made for smokelss powder. and i have about a dozen side locks that i have built for my self. all of the side locks shoot paperpatch bullets and use blackhorn 209 powder. i have magspark nipples on them that uses a 209 shotgun primer, the hottest i can get. dont use the 209 muzzle loader shotgun primers. to expensive and too weak. i never ever clean between rounds and they load easier after the first shot then on a squeekey clean barrel. i do clean when im done shooting but clean up is very very easy. we dont use smokelss powder in my son inline as i can put 120 grains by volume of 209 powder behind the sabot and 451 bullet and it gets the same ft. per second as smokeless does. 2200 ft. per second. it is the only black powder sub. that shoots as accurate as real black. it is 15 percent more powerful than real black by volume. when i run all my guns through the chronograph it was the most consistant powder i have ever shot of any kind. i have two guns that shoot a .440 paperpatched bullet that weighs 335 grains. one of the guns has a 24 and 1/2 inch barrel and the other has a 30 inch barrel. with 100 grains by volume of black horn 209 powder they both went through the chronograph a 1700 ft per sec. the barrel lengths didnt make any difference. after doing this several times with both guns the biggest varience i got was 1704 ft. per sec. that is really good. on some guns i have found that a fouling shot is required to be ready to target or hunt with. my .50/s dont seam too require it but one of the .45/s does. if you use the powder see if their is a diff. impact with a clean barrel as to a fouled barrel. their may be no diff. with sabots but with the smaller paperpatch bullets their is for me. if you live in a humid climate i would clean after done useing it as you would with any gun. i dont care what it cost as long as they keep makeing it im going to keep shooting it.

[oldred]

I have used 209 in a TC Hawken with stock nipple/caps but it takes a few grains of real BP for a starter to make it work. The only real advantage to doing this seems to be that multiple shots can be fired without cleaning but of course immediate cleaning at the end of the shooting session is still required due to the BP starter charge and the corrosive nature of the caps. On the corrosion question, purposely leaving uncleaned a cartridge gun that had been fired with 209 rounds left only a kind of grey residue after a few days that was unchanged even weeks later. This residue easily cleaned up after several weeks and left no apparent damage at all, brass however was rather badly tarnished but that's of course a non-issue for a ML.

[bubbapug1]

So could I used something like this on my CVA percussion cap rifle and than use 209?

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sche...onversion.html

[M-Tecs]

Yes BH209 works as claimed. For my side locks I use this http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/mag-spark.html if I am using BH209

[bubbapug1]

Perfect. I'm glad you all took the time to respond. My gun barrel is also probably thankful as water and steel aren't really friendly.

[johnson1942]

bubbapug1, you wont be able to use the pedersoli conversion nipple because it comes in 1/4-28 american only. the magspark nipple comes in the variouse threads that are needed for diff. guns. just call paul at warren outdoors and tell him what make of gun you have and he will get the right nipple for you. doesnt hurt to order one extra cap as it would shut you down during hunting if you lost the nipples cap. also never put any kind of powder under the shotgun primer in the nipple. this would blow it apart. the shot gun primer is enough and you will never have a missfire.

[OverMax]

claims about Blackhorn 209 which sound appealing - like low fouling and non corrosive. Is this all hype or does Blackhorn really work like a smokeless powder??

B/H-209 is clean burning. Much cleaner than any Pyrodex product. Try not to compare B/H 209 with smokeless. B/H -209 is a substitute Black Powder first and foremost. Perhaps not as quick to corrode as others. But its good policy to clean a barrel after its using of B/H-209 anyway. There are draw backs to shooting B/P weapons. Clean-up of ones weapon is a requirement to keep his or her B/P rifle /pistol in good operating condition.

[rsrocket1]

I've gone through as many as 26 shots in one sitting using BH209 in my CVA Optima Pro without swabbing once and the accuracy was as good at the end as it was in the beginning. The trick with the inline ML's with BH209 is a really tight seal between the primer and the firing pin face. I use a very thin washer at the base of the breech plug when shooting with CCI 209M's or Federal 209A's. With the Winchester 209's, the primer is long enough not to need the washer. The gun needs a firm snap to lock in place and the rim of the primer shows that it is rubbing the firing pin face (but not the striking surface of the primer!). I use the standard CVA breech plug with the concaved dome breech face, not the BH209 plug with the cavity and can get 100% reliable ignition.

Clean up is super easy with Hoppe's No9. BH209 in a 50 cal ML produces just about as much smoke as a standard .308 rifle load.

Here is a comparison of the difference between BH209 and Alliant Black MZ which produces about as much smoke as real black powder.

[dondiego]

As noted above, I have a CVA Wolf and I used a Win 209 primer and 80 gns of BH209 and it didn't fire on 3 tries. The primer blew the ball and half the powder out of the bore on each shot. What do you suggest?

[NSB]

http://cva.com/CVA-Product-View.php?id=177

[RMc]

Apparently Western Powder has managed to create what amounts to a bulk "smokeless powder" with some potassium nitrate and sulfur added. According to the article, Western Powder also no longer claims Blackhorn 209 is non-corrosive.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/06/11/is-blackhorn-209-really-a-smokeless-powder/

[johnson1942]

ive had no problem with it but i think about a year or so ago their was a shooter who posted that he shot it once and left the barrel un cleaned for some time and it ruined the barrel. i think he was in a high humidity area and the gun wasnt his but a friends. he stated he had to buy his friend a new barrel. again i never have to clean between shots but i alway clean the gun when im done.

[spfd1903]

The BH209 has always provided good accuracy with Hornady .50 cal, non sabot, FTX type projectiles. Also tried some BH 209 from their load data for .45 Colt with Lee 452-255-RF boolits. Accuracy was not that impressive, but it generated a perfect 2' diameter smoke ring every time.