Original Remington Creedmoor - need a mold

[Woollybugger]

All:

Newbie here.

I have owned this Original Rem Creedmoor for 30 plus years and I'm finally getting together the necessary components to shoot it. It is in outstanding condition, complete with both tang and the butt sight mount.
Barrel is marked 44s-100 but casts as 44 Remington Special. The barrel is 5 groove so measuring the bore is a bit tricky - best I can tell is groove .446 and bore .443. Very little free bore - maybe .190 from case mouth to start of rifling.

I have 40 new cases (HDS 44 Sharps BSC) that I have sized and trimmed. Fired formed a few with cream of wheat.

Now I need to find a Boolit. Paperpatch? I'm leaning that way, more because that was how it was built and the freebore might make a GG a tougher mold to find.

Anyone with directions on getting some boolits to try or what I should do next please clue me in.

I've read Matthews book -"The paper Jacket" and the process does not seem that tough, I just don't want to screw this old girl up.

Best,

Mark
In North Dakota

[Nobade]

Hi Wollybugger, welcome to the forum!

That rifle is undoubtedly designed to shoot bullets patched to bore diameter. One of the best books available now is by Randolph Wright, I think it's called "A beginner's guide to paper patched bullets" or something similar. Bill Ferguson (the antimony man) sells it, as does several other vendors. It will take you through the whole process and is more applicable to your situation than the Paper Jacket is.

If you don't know about Buffalo Arms (BACO) you need to check out their web site and get a catalog. They sell moulds, pre made bullets, patching paper, wad material, wad cutters, etc. Everything you need to get that rifle up and running like it is supposed to.

You have a valuable piece of history there, take good care of it and learn to give it the love it needs. Congratulations!

-Nobade

[country gent]

Loading and shootind Paper Patched bullets A beginners guide is very good place to start with. I have the Paul Matthews The Paper Jacket and it is informative it deal more with smokeless ammo than Black powder. Buffalo Arms have the soft lead bullets needed for this and onion paper to wrap with, they also have templates. Its almost just as easu to make your template from scratch as fine tune a purchased one. Read the above book and follow the instructions.

[John Allen]

Woolybugger, please post some pics of this sucker. I NEED to see it.

[Lead pot]

You will be best served making a good chamber cast. The Remingtons had a different bore groove then the .438/.446 now used. And make sure if your chamber is the .44 necked Special or the Straight. I have even seen one chambered in the Sharps .44-2-5/8 BN. at a collectors show.
I shoot several .44's using the PP bullets of different diameters and lengths. If you get a good cast and let me know what the bore grooves are or send me the cast I will give you some bullets and the propped patch template so you can make the proper patches and get the proper mould for that fine rifle you have. But I will not send bullets that wont do you any good.
I would imagine that with the tang and heal sight bases you say this rifle has that it is most likely have a Hepburn.
You mentioned that you have the HDS .44 basic brass that brass has about a .515 base diameter, at least the HDS brass I use for the .44 Sharps necked uses. The Rem ST and specials where different in those dimensions from what I have seen.

[Woollybugger]

All,

Thanks a ton for the help.

I have attached the dimensions from the chamber cast, Photos of the cast, a fire-formed case and of the Rifle.

Lead pot, I can send you a slug of the bore and a fire-formed case if that is of any help? - the chamber cast is the one and only.

[Lead pot]

Your measurements and drawing is good enough. That is a very nice chamber cast.
Taking your drawing measurements on the case neck I will say your bore measurements are close. It's hard to get a precise measurement without using a 37 degree V block or V anvil mike.
I don't have a bullet of the proper diameter for your chamber. That is a very nice Rem roller sporting rifle you have and from the looks of your cast it looks like a very good bore also.

[Woollybugger]

Thanks Lead Pot,

Can I try a .432? or .433? PP bullet or will I need a custom mold?

[Lead pot]

I would get an unpatched bullet that is .008 'under bore diameter. To keep the bullet in the case neck above shoulder a groove diameter patched bullet with the lead your drawing shows might not be the best.
WIth a unpatched bullet that is .008" under bore diameter will let you use a paper that is .002" or .0022" thick. this is a paper a lot easier to find like at the paper mill.
A custom made mould would be my way to go. I don't like to jury rig a bullet through sizing dies. I would go with a bullet a couple thousands under bore diameter than running them through a sizing die and changing their dynamics.
If you cant get a true measurement with a bore slug tale the rifle to a machine shot and have him check it with pin gauges before spending money on a good custom mould and do it once.
My patched bullets for match shooting are patched to .438 and .439" for hunting the .44 bullet is patched .002 under bore diameter.

[.22-10-45]

Don't rule out G.G. bullets too soon! I have an original Remington No.1 short-range rifle in .40-50 B.N. even though rifling grooves are shallow for P.P., this thing will pile 300gr. G.G. on top of one another at 100yds.

[bigted]

a hint on the grease groove boolits if you are going to try em for effect. measure the inside diameter of your fireformed case to see what the chamber/throat desires ... no matter what the bore/groove measure out to.

fill the fireformed case neck with lead and with no need for sizing or crimping ... be astonished at your outcome.

quite different then the paperpatch requirements. i would then load your GG boolits to just kiss the rifling and swipe between each shot. easy peasy.

[montana_charlie]

a hint on the grease groove boolits if you are going to try em for effect. measure the inside diameter of your fireformed case to see what the chamber/throat desires ...

Ted points to a measurement that is not being considered.

The ID of the chamber at the mouth is shown to be .475".
If the wall thickness of the brass is .010" at the mouth, the bullet that fits the chamber is .455"
If the neck is sized down a bit to facilitate easy chambering, it still wants a >.445" diameter bullet.


Are you sure that your groove diameter is .446 and the bore is .443?
That is only a difference of three thousandths ... meaning the rifling is only .0015" deep.

CM

[Woollybugger]

Hi All,

I finally retired and want to resurrect this topic.
I will try again to measure the chamber cast bore and groove diameter to get a good understanding on what size mold I need to buy.

Would a slug of the bore be of better use? Again this is a 5 groove Remington barrel and I have not found a great way to measure the bore and groove.

Thanks again,

Mark
in ND

[kokomokid]

I would take it to a machine shop and try gage pins to find the bore size. You only need to go half inch or so deep as these bbls were crooked and a gage pin will hang up if you try to go through.

[Woollybugger]

Excellent!

I was unaware of these.

Thanks again

[skeettx]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...cant-box-of-50

https://www.buffaloarms.com/446-385-...x-of-50-446385

https://www.etsy.com/listing/5417105...1mm-mauser-446

[Woollybugger]

Skeettx

I'm only looking at PP boolits for this one. A .434 -.432 (near 500gr) PP bullet + 4 thickness (2 wraps) of .0024 paper will build it to .4416 -.4436 bore diameter. I want to nail the bore diameter and paper before I order a mold. Thanks.

[Don McDowell]

Probably better take a closer look at a .435-438 bullet wrapped in 8 lb paper, and check the twist, a 500 gr bullet might be a bit longer than the twist will stabilize at long range.

[Woollybugger]

Thanks Don,

Which 8# paper?

I had wondered about the twist too. Is an adjustable mold a workable option for adjusting the bullet to the twist?

Thanks again

[Don McDowell]

Seth Cole 55w is a good paper. Staples office supply also sells an 8 lb paper roll in their drafting supplies that is quite similar to Seth Cole.
Adjustable moulds can work well.