got a goofy idea...so crazy ...it may work!....or not.

[Magana559]

Flash powder will not move that bullet one inch. It's designed as a burst charge in fireworks and most definitely will blow a nice hole in your gun/face/hand.

use a brass rod to pound it out.

AGAIN DO NOT USE FLASH POWDER IN YOUR GUN!

[dubber123]

Rockets, handgrenades, and flamethrowers were developed in safe conditions in laboratories by people that knew a lot about the chemistry of the explosives.
Ole Jack

Actually, I don't think any one of these was developed in a lab. Rockets and likely hand grenades by the ancient Chinese, and the flamethrower by the ancient Romans. All likely bad ideas at the time, that somehow managed to work nonetheless.

[Cadillo]

Attachment 116313 He use to shoot left-hand!!!

So what's the story behind that?

[DrCaveman]

When messing around with boomers as a lad, i found piccolo pete powder and dumped black cats to light up nicely with just a cannon fuse and a "fairly sealed" metal container, varying from old threaded film canisters to plumbing parts.

The powder obtained from disassembly of shotgun shells/22lr rounds did not light from the same ignition situation. Duds

Fast forward a bunch of years, and now i load smokeless cartridges. These powders take a LOT more to get lit. I think this means what everyone is saying: flash powder is REALLY fast, and maybe one could develop a load for a tiny tiny super high pressure cartridge, with just a dab of the stuff... But it would be touchy, to say the least. Best get a very accurate scale

Hey, what about that 9mm that jerry miculek was shooting? A custom 686, if i recall... Probably some thick chamber walls, and the 9mm is already a very high pressure round... Sounds like a test platform! (from a vice, pulling trigger with a string, preferably)

[303Guy]

Would that flash powder be any different from primers?

I once stuck an air rifle pellet in the bore of my Mini 14 from just a primer so I added a tiny amount of shotgun powder to a pellet-less case and shot the stuck pellet out. I would be very hesitant in trying that same trick with a boolit stuck in the bore. I simply would not try it. The little experience I've had with fast powders is that things happen in that large, cavernous case while the boolit is still in the neck that would make me not want anything faster in there. Think detonation as opposed to combustion. Rifle, shotgun and pistol propellants burn. Powders do not detonate but the primer does (I think they do?) Some of us actually choose primers with less power because we find they work better (not always, some powders need magnum primers) so I see no reason to add something that detonates.

Not pulling the idea down, mind you. It was a hypothetical question title "goofy idea" with a request for opinions/thoughts. Fair question to my mind. My answer is I would want to find out in one of my guns and not while I was anywhere nearby. However, there are some crazy dudes out there that do test crazy ideas, especially those that go boom. Myth Busters. Gotta love those guys!

[dudel]

Why? When a wooden dowel/brass rod works and is much safer.

[dondiego]

I'll do the test for you! I have the flash powder. Send me your firearm and.................

[Spector]

I keep an old stethoscope in my reloading room. Tells me quickly if I forgot to load powder, but not how much powder, or if it is a compressed load of powder, or what kind of powder. I have tried to compare one load against another to see if they make the same sound when agitated back and forth, fore to aft. I haven't ever been able to get that down pat so I just use it for determining the presence of a non-compressed powder charge. It is better to just stay focused in the first place, but a stethoscope can serve a limited purpose in determining the presence of a powder charge.

[starmac]

My take on the thread was had anybody worked up a usuable load using powder out of fire crackers, not to shoot a squib out. My question is why would a guy want too, even if it wasn't dangerous, it would seem to be a lot of work, compared to using powder made for the purpose.

Like Smokeywolf said WHY WHY WHY.

[220swiftfn]

My take on the thread was had anybody worked up a usuable load using powder out of fire crackers, not to shoot a squib out. My question is why would a guy want too, even if it wasn't dangerous, it would seem to be a lot of work, compared to using powder made for the purpose.

Like Smokeywolf said WHY WHY WHY.

What gets me about this is the OP's thought that this could prevent a squib load, which is exactly the opposite of what would happen. Squibs happen due to failing to see a non-existant SMALL charge of powder in the bottom of the case, so logically, an absolutely MINISCULE one would make things "much more better", hence my suggestion for Trailboss.......


Dan

[Digital Dan]

Well, if only to beat a dead horse?

Never have I pondered using anything other than gunpowder for launching bullets, be it black or smokeless. A point sometimes unknown, or sometimes ignored: Smokeless powder is a propellent, BP a low velocity explosive. There is a distinct difference between the two and what their pressure curve looks like in a firearm. Primers contain an explosive mix at well, but it is quite small of course.

One of the points danced around in this discussion but not properly described is called quickness. Burn rates of powders are generally understood by shooters as a comparative measure of how fast smokeless powder burns when evaluated against other powders. What most don't understand is what happens within the cartridge as heat and pressure increase. Smokeless burns faster in a progressive manner, ie., the higher the pressure the faster it burns. This measure is called quickness. Explosives on the other hand, burn fast regardless of environment, that includes black powder to C4. Truth is that things generally understood to be explosives, such as TNT, dynamite etc, can and have been used to launch bullets, but it is a tedious and dangerous process to undertake.

During WW2 Filipino insurgents did just that while fighting the Japanese, but it cost them quite a few precious rifles to figure out what would work, and even then the first use of such loads was directed at capturing enemy arms and ammo in virtually every case.

It all boils down not so much to what we can do, but what we should do. With other options available for which definitive load information is available, I see no reason whatsoever to attempt or consider the use of flash powder for loading ammo. From all appearances it seems that it does however serve well in splitting stumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfuQO_2LiMc

[kerreckt]

Don't try it. I have experience with flash powder(s)/ improvised munitions. Very unpredictable. Friction, shock and things we usually don't think about can come into play in the worst way.

[jonp]

I'd use it in a compressed load in a 45 Colt to see what happens......or not.......

[9.3X62AL]

Questions and threads of this sort tend to appear here and elsewhere more frequently during times of "shortage" or "outage" of conventional components. The question itself isn't dangerous, nor is the discussion that flows from that question......but to act upon some of the queries posted in this vein could be REALLY BAD IDEAS. As always, it is good to remember that we are harnessing substantial forces when we set about reloading ammunition, even with known & established formulae. Care and caution never go out of style in this hobby field.

[10x]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCDtUkUX2ks

[mozeppa]

wow!... did i ever open a can of worms!

allow me to be very clear.

in my original post, what i was trying to say was that primers have enough power to
move a bullet forward enough to lodge it in the barrel....and that most of us know this to be true.

then i cited the good old 38 spl. as our hypothetical gun.
i went on further to say "what if" we used flash powder from fire crackers as a propellant.
mind you... i said "what if".
at this point there has been off the rails commenting on my post.

some well wishers begging me to "please!...don't do it!"
some others commenting that my thoughts on the idea was foolish, foolhardy
and "why why why would you do such a thing when there are proper components to be bought and used."

allow me to be without any doubt very clear on this....
I won't attempt this ...and never seriously
even thought about trying this.
how it degraded into me shooting a squib out a barrel ....i really don't know.
i didn't have any thoughts on dis-lodging a squib by using flash powder and another case & primer.

i value my guns and body parts too much for that.
i pound them out with a brass rod and a rawhide hammer.
where this though came from?...i was surfing youtube and came across a video of people re-building primers
by using strike anywhere matches and toy cap gun caps.

i thought it was ingenious that it could be done.

the youtube guy was talking about "if primers were no longer made due to political agendas...what could the shooter do?"
answer: you rebuild the primer. (with whatever materials that you have available in these tough times.)


to quote 9.3x62al who i think gets what i'm saying and responded with this:
Questions and threads of this sort tend to appear here and elsewhere more frequently during times of "shortage" or "outage" of conventional components. The question itself isn't dangerous, nor is the discussion that flows from that question......but to act upon some of the queries posted in this vein could be REALLY BAD IDEAS. As always, it is good to remember that we are harnessing substantial forces when we set about reloading ammunition, even with known & established formulae. Care and caution never go out of style in this hobby field.

again .....i'm smarter than this...and i'd never do it.

i just said "what if"

i'm 60 years old and worked in many machine shops ...and wood shops.
i own and run indy billiards service.
i've built many things out of wood, metal and plastics.
i've built 100's of pool tables by hand 1 or 2 at a time.

how does these statements qualify me for anything you ask?

easy. i've been around , thru and in some very dangerous situations in my 60 years.

here is my "safety" qualification..... I STILL HAVE 20/13 VISION....I STILL HAVE ALL 10 FINGERS.

I'M probably more safe in my daily life than many here that think i'm foolish for even thinking up such a taboo thought.

what about the guy here who made his own black powder?
where's the "why why why when theres proper powders on the shelf to be bought."?

i thought he was damn genius!

again.............and finally.

I won't be trying to use flash powder in any gun.

[303Guy]

Not for one moment did I ever suspect that you might be actually considering trying it.

I am however, guilty of introducing shooting out a stuck projectile. It was a 1 gr (more or less) air rifle pellet that could be blown out with a bicycle pump, let alone being pushed out with a cleaning rod and it was just past the throat. Doing that with a stuck boolit would be just silly. But if one does the math, one would see it would take a fair charge of powder to over-pressure a gun with said stuck boolit/bullet. Pressure spikes would the real danger. Well, the other danger being if there is not enough pressure to move the stuck boolit the gun would have to be concreted up and dropped in the ocean. How would one open a bolt with a chamber still under pressure? Plus one would never know when the boolit might suddenly shoot out so you cant drill a venting hole through the boolit. A jacketed bullet would likely leak and relieve the pressure but how would you know? So no, never attempt to fire a stuck boolit out.

There was one reported instance in which a revolver was fired once a year on new years day. Then one year the owner decided to clean his gun or something and found an obstruction in the bore. The gunsmith found one boolit for every year!

Hey, your thread has been quite a hit. Just see how many reads it has had. Many of those were mine - I keep coming back to see the latest comments. It is the kind of thing I'd like to see mythbusters put to the test. And they couldn't get the flash powder to blow up the gun they would put something in it that would!

[mozeppa]

Hey, your thread has been quite a hit. Just see how many reads it has had. Many of those were mine - I keep coming back to see the latest comments. It is the kind of thing I'd like to see mythbusters put to the test. And they couldn't get the flash powder to blow up the gun they would put something in it that would!

yeah...i'm a star