Preparing the Master Caster for Automation

[HATCH]

From the picture shown.
Air in is the sides. You just block one side off if you aren't connecting two air valves side by side.
the port facing up is the NO port. This is the port you hook to the air cylinder.
The port that is at the top of the black solenoid is the exhaust port.

now how to hook it up.
there is a screw on the top (based on the picture) that holds the plastic cover on.
Remove it.
There are two screws that you hook the wires up to.
It is polarity sensitive only if you want the LED light to work.
If you hook it up and the light doesn't light when its operated then swap the wires around.


This is how you should run BOTH machines off the same controller.
You need to hook the second limit switch up to the second machine.
Do it the same way you did it on the first.
Now when you wire it you need to do it this way.
You make a safety circuit.
So take on wire off the existing MC limit switch. Connect it to the 2nd limit switch.
Then connect a wire between the two switches on the terminals that aren't used.
Basically this way the PLC will only start if BOTH machines are at the top and the limit switches are closed.

[HATCH]

also you should put a second support on your enclosure for your control panel.
Its fiberglass and will eventually stress crack/break

[chloe123]

Hoping to get some insight on an issue with the Master Caster that was automated with the Wyman W./Hatch design a few months back.

Striving to get a more reliable boolit drop, I polished the boolit cavities with Flitz. The idea was to eventually have the machine run a bit smoother like some of the other members with similar designs.

The issue I'm having--I think Tazza brought this up a while back--is that the mold carrier cylinder is operating aggressively. I figured if I polished the molds, I could reduce the force needed to drop the boolits. Although I can reduce the pressure via the flow restrictor that is installed on the mold carrier cylinders, instead of slowing the speed down to effectively drop the boolits, the cylinder will not open completely. Basically, sticking in an open position.

At first I thought that the cylinder air column was just too small to effectively slow down the cycle, but then I realized there's a quirk with the "automatic" and "manual" modes of the machine (see the video below for this)

I don't know where to start in trouble shooting. I don't think the air lines or other pneumatic apparatus I installed is involved, but at the same time I'm not certain.

Since I already reached out to Hatch on it, I figured I'd post a short video to show the issue.

I had an inking that the multimeter I own should be used to measure values on the Hatch panel, but honestally I've only used it for simple household tasks.


http://youtu.be/jipQdxYXgfo

I didn't really restrict the air flow much on the video. I just wanted to evidence the issue I'm experiencing in both "modes" . Fwiw, I have had problems with the "double tap" feature functioning as well, and not clear if the issues are related.

[Tazza]

I don't believe it is a panel issue......

Hopefully Hatch will have some guidance for you, from what i can see, the dumps on each mode look the same to me.... Could it be because in automatic mode the sprue has had a different amount of time to harden up? You may have been waiting a little longer or shorter in manual mode so it may be harder or softer when you dump it takes more or less effort to cut the lead off? This would make the operation more and less violent.

I spent a little time today polishing 3 molds, i should have taken pictures, they do look nice and shiny inside now! i wonder how well they will drop now.

[chloe123]

...you're gonna be pleased with the effect of the polishing . Prev I cleaned, and smoked . The trickiest part of polishing was applying it evenly . I ended up using a felt tip on a dremel tool. Very pleased though not sure how long it'll last ...back to wk . Good luck

[HATCH]

Sprue hardness would be the only factor to deal with.

If the sprue is cut quickly, it will require less force as the lead isn't fully harden.

In automatic mode everything is fixed time.
It sits at the top before lead pour for x amount of seconds (2 sec by default)
Lead is poured at the same time the harden timer starts (6 sec by default)
Mold is moved to the bottom and held for x amount (2 sec by default)
In manual mode, unless you time it exactly the same, the force will be different.
Also if you don't have a sprue to cut it will move faster.

On your setup are you using a air valve per machine or a single air valve and splitting the output?


I don't fully understand the properties of air using flow restrictors so someone might need to step up and correct me.

Flow restrictors do limit pressure some but only initially.
If you restrict the air flow it will take longer to fill the cylinder up with air and for the pressure to build up. Once the air has equilized the pressures will be the same.

Are you running a double acting cylinder or a spring return?
If spring return, put the restrictor between the air valve and the cylinder.

[HATCH]

If you shut the valve all the way it will cause the mold to get stuck at the bottom.
You need to almost shut it.

On a double acting cylinder you can put restrictors on both sides.
You can restrict the air going into the cylinder at the same time as restricting the air going out of the cylinder.
The only problem I have when I restrict too much is that I get the "BOUNCE" effect.
The mold carrier goes to the bottom and hits but bounces back slightly causing the mold to slightly close.
If the boolits aren't fully out of the mold before the bounce, they will get stuck between the mold halves

[Tazza]

I too used a deemel like tool and felt pads. Still took a while but looks the part.

With a double acting cylinder mine bounces a little too but as the pressure builds it opens right up. It's just one of those tweaking things to get right or close enough to it

[chloe123]

...one set of valves to run cylinders.
...one cylinder (mold carrier) dual acting though only one side used. So, in effect it's simgle acting
...air restrictor is post solenoid/before cylinder.

After hooking up the first MC, I experimented with simply splitting the air lines to run the 2nd MC. I figured if there was a problem I'd just disconnect the 2 extra air lines and evaluate problem. But apart from the (potential) challenge of using singular settings of one control panel on 2 diff molds, it works pretty well. I'm definitely getting a lot of value from the Hatch design for the $.

Regarding that, his timing --he describes above--feels perfect. It allows just the right amount of time to either inspect a stage or stop the unit before a problem occurs. For instance, the2 sec delay before the lead pours. Pre-mold polishing I'd get a bullet stuck in the mold occasionally. That 2 sec the mold rested on the top was ample to remedy the situation by selecting his "manual move". That immediately charges the mold carrier cylinder with air, forcing it downward until you release the button. great, well designed, features.

Even with the slow down that occurs from the sprue cutting, I swear it looks like this feature is operating the cylinders more effectively, but at the end of the day, it's hard to prove. It just sounds louder when the mold carrier hits the frame

What I wanted to do is to achieve a smoothness to the bullet dropping cycle. I think I brought this up in the past. I get the feeling that the 3/4" bore of the air cylinder isn't sufficient to get a smooth fluid open.

i removed the separate return spring (attached to the handle) and adjusted the flow restrictor while ranging the air pressure from ~70psi to ~105psi. The increase of air pressure didn't really allow me to gain a better drop, regardless of the flow restrictor setting.

My mindset is that a smoother action, without banging open, will allow the sprues, and bullets, to be more reliably sorted. as it is they get flung forward.

Before writing I did some searching and found this:


Is the reason for the netting not to just keep the sprues from being flung indiscriminately, but rather to allow them to bounce against the netting and downward in the Magma compartment designed for the sprues? Regardless, a good idea if it works.

Other machines lie, Tazzas are exceptional smooth. His cycle looks like the ridge down the venter of the mold carrier doesn't even strike the base of the machine. The drawback is that it requires the boolits to release when the mold halves separate. But, I'm sure the polishing will work.

the Flitz polish Hatch referenced is effective. Doesn't take long at all. Or maybe better said, if it's taking long, you may be doing more than polishing. I don't think it took me more than 2 minutes a mold with the Dremel. (I tried a method similar to "Wiederlader" but it wasn't as consistent as a Flitz polish with a Dremel style tool)

[Tazza]

Mine does hit the bottom, it just doesn't hit it very hard due to the flow restrictors.

Mine with a single acting cylinder and even with a double acting one without a restrictor flung sprues all over the place, a net over the front would stop then going all over the place but it will increase the chances of a projectile or sprue to come back and get stuck between the mold halves.

I know what you mean about needing the impact to free the projectiles, mine stick so i need to get my tappers working.

[HATCH]

You need to invest in a set of valves per machine.

You only have so much air flow thru the valves as it is.
I have found out when I upgraded my panel that air flow is critical.
I tried some different valves because they mounted easier then the MAC brand that I had been using.
It was a mistake as I couldn't crank up the flow high enough to the point it was TOO much.
I switch valves to the MAC style and it worked like a champ.
I know the valves I sent you also will work as I have another person using the same valves.


You need to have a air manifold off of the main line that goes to each of the valves.
What works for us isn't going to work the same for you because of your setup.
You are trying to push twice the amount of air thru the same size line as we are using for our single machine setups.

[HATCH]

Any updates??

[chloe123]

Work and home stuff take priority. I took a few clips a few days ago but didn't have time to edit it and explain beyond previous posts. Ill ensure I comment in the future by editing this post