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Thread: The quiet .30-30

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    The quiet .30-30

    Would like to pose a question, specific to the .30-30. Lyman 311041, 24" barrel looking for 750 fps with ragged hole accuracy at 25 yards. The gun is capable of that with faster loads, same bullet. What would your preferred powder be and how much. My choices are Bullseye and 700X or 800X. Dacron filler?

    I read an older thread wherein Larry G suggested something in the range of 5.5 BE with equivalent bullet weight if not the same bullet for something in the range of 1100 fps. Looking to go slower.

    Thanks
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I have gone as light as 4 grains BE and it exits the barrel, but accuracy in a 12" twist was only fair. A 10" twist may do better, or a lighter bullet.

  3. #3
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    firefly1957's Avatar
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    Do you have a chronograph or it it the velocity you are looking for from us?
    I loaded some Lee 309170 bullets that cast at 178 grain with soft range lead over 4.3 grains Red Dot and they were doing 800 f/s but accuracy was not good same powder load (both with a dab of fillet to keep powder against primer) under a .309 sized 90 gr cast .32 caliber bullet does 1040 f/s and is very accurate.
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks, I do have a chronograph and after your comment realized I have red dot as well. I do not have a lighter weight mould. Shooting a 10" twist. I know the gun will run marginal sub sonic velocity well, I'm looking for any experience that has worked in the 750 fps range. Have some dacron but have never tried to use it in the past.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I use 6 grains BE with the Lee 160 in 7.62x54R. Accuracy at 50 yards was less than 2" I just loaded some in brass prepped with a Lyman "M" die in 31cal. I hope to range test them this weekend. I'm hoping the "M" die helps.

    This load is 1075 f/s and I don't believe I've ever heard a sonic crack from one (I know 1075 should be sub-sonic) and we have shot hundreds. I don't use any fillers.

    Hope this helps some how.

    BTW: I shoot the same 160gr Lee sized to .311" from a old Marlin using 10gr Trail Boss. This is not a sub-sonic load but is very accurate. The RCBS .308" neck expander must be a "good fit" for this app.

    Motor

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    je suis charlie

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  7. #7
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    Cast the 311041 of soft alloy (COWWs +2% tin/lead at 30/70 or 40-1 or 30-1 alloy). TL in LLA with a light coat, let dry thoroughly. Leave as cast and seat a GC on them with a .311 Lee push through or use the older Lyman slip on or home made slip on GCs.

    Load over Bullseye with no wad or filler of anything. Start at 5 gr and work down in .3 gr increments until the 750 fps goal is reached. Should be accurate to 50 yards at least. Have a good rod to push bullets out if you go to low. The softer alloy will prevent that but makes it easy to push the bullet out if one gets stuck. I've gone as low as 2.5 gr with the same bullet with raged hole accuracy at 50 ft (indoor range).

    Larry Gibson

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks Larry, much appreciated. Will let you know how this progresses.

    D
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Artful, thanks to you as well.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  10. #10
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    For bare minimum loads, you might want to consider shooting round balls. Lube them with LA and crimp very slightly to keep them in position, and experiment with charges until you get what you want with regard to accuracy and velocity. I haven't done it, but a pal who trained his sons with this load in an old Win. M-94 said they shot tons of this load and had barrels full of fun with it. Said it'd kill a lot better than a .22 at higher velocity too, on possums, squirrels, etc. Just a thought, FWIW. The problem you're up against is that the lighter you load, the more likely it is you'll get a bullet stuck in your barrel at some point. Knowledge comes at a price, always, and this is just the price for that kind of knowledge. The round ball has minimal barrel contact, so resistance is reduced, minimizing the risk of a stuck ball in the barrel at minimal loadings. It's still enough, with proper size, of course, to get spun sufficiently for a RB, which really doesn't have to be spun all that fast to be stabilized anyway. Report should be very light, if that's what you're looking for. Lee makes a .311 RB mould, too, which should be about ideal, or you can purchase #0 buckshot. I think tha's the one that's .31 caliber, isn't it???

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Blackwater, yes, #1 buck is .310-.311 depending on where you find it in my experience. I have some roundball experience in CF rifles and what you suggest is consistent with my experience. The load I'm looking to develop is not so much for fun as for unobtrusively poking pigs in the brain bucket. Circumstances are contrived by rules I did not make, and I've been using .22 CB shorts for this for a long time at the behest of the State of Florida in a hog eradication program. I'm bored, have other options and wanted to blaze a new trail in a manner of speaking. Accuracy at short range is paramount, no surprises permitted.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  12. #12
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    Ah, yes! I see! A buddy up in the moountains of N. GA. hosts some F&G folks that crop deer where he lives every year or two, and they use suppressed .22/.250's and similar, but those ine power in all gov't's don't know much about things like that, so they just make the rules according to their FEELINGS, and NOT with any knowledge. Most begrudge anyone killing poor Bambi or Porky, and don't know or care that pigs CAN, at least on occasion, take offense to being shot at. You're a good man to be able to put up with dumb rules and still git-r-done. Good luck with your project & plans.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    DD, I'd also consider some of the 32 pistol and 32/20 rifle bullets of around 115 grains weight if accuracy is not all it could be at 750 fps speeds using the heavier rifle bullets.

    It just so happens that I am using 32 pistol bullets in a 308 with around 3.5 grain charges of Bullseye and similar powders and getting excellent sub one inch groups at fifty yards with them. Velocity is in the 1000 fps range, right where I want it, with 85 to 102 grain bullets. You of course will cut that charge a bit to get the speed you want with a 115 grain bullet.

    The trouble I have with roundball loads is accuracy falls off radically at any ranges that get to be a bit longer and that penetration is considerably inferior to a heavier true bullet. I understand hogs may have tough(ish) skulls. Roundballs also bleed energy really fast.

  14. #14
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    JWFilips's Avatar
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    I shoot a Ranch Dog 75 grain (314") boolit in my 30-30 336 Marlin with 2.5 to 3.0 grain Bullseye Very accurate to 50 yards. About the report of a 22 LR but lower in tone.
    I bring the .314 boolit down by using Larry Gibson's method for the Lee 90 swc ( A tumbled lubed coat of LLA as they come out of the mould & when dry Push through base first in a .311 or as I do a custom honed .312" Lee sizer die ...my gun likes 'em fat) This preserves the flat Plain Base & the lla prevents the lube grooves from disappearing (because they are tumble lube style boolits) Once out of the sizer they get tumbled again in LLA or Recluse's formula. For me they shoot way better then the Lee 90 gr SWC

    I have also shot the N.O.E. RD version 165 Gr (with No Gas Check in place) with 6.0 Bullsye Not to shabby of groups at 50 yds maybe averaging about 2" Lubed in Recluse's 45/45/10
    Last edited by JWFilips; 09-21-2014 at 03:06 PM.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy John Van Gelder's Avatar
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    The .30-30 is a good choice for shooting cast. The 311041 is a good bullet choice. I shot many hundreds of the 311291 through my Win., 94, my light load was 7 gr of Unique. Very accurate, pretty quiet, but quite a bit over 750 fps.

    Hodgdon Trail Boss is a good choice, it is a bulky powder, their minimum load for a 160 gr. bullet is 6.5 gr. at around 900 fps. There are some cautions about "squib" loads in relatively large capacity rufle cases.

    Large capacity/small charges, inconsistant ignition and poor accuracy.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy Quiettime's Avatar
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    Just shot some NOE 247 HP that I ESPC'd in Marlin 336 micro groove. COL 2.55" over 9gr of Trail Boss. Very quiet sub load, comfortable to shoot with ear plugs out. HP expanded great even shooting into sand at 25 yds. Trail Boss works great!
    And just for your info... casting with a single cavity is about as close as you can get to zero production, while still having some production. -- Whitespider

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy John Van Gelder's Avatar
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    Quiettime

    Hodgdon lists the 9 gr. load at around 1100 fps., in the .30-30. With carefull shot placement that load would work for deer at short ranges. I have some favorite loads for the .45 Colt and Trail Boss, in my 94 Winchester.

    The real advantage to that powder is that is is very bulky so it fills the case better with light loads and gives better ignition consistancy whcih translates into better accuracy.

    Any idea of the velocity you are getting in your gun..?

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Too bad the OP does not have TrailBoss to include in his work-up as it seems to shoot with low acoustic report and still get the velocity he needs.

    prs

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy Quiettime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Van Gelder View Post
    Any idea of the velocity you are getting in your gun..?
    All I know at this point is that it is subsonic. Report similar to .22lr out of a long barrel.

    I will probably back down to 8.9 only because some of the loaded rounds I could hear the powder shake ever so faintly and some I could not hear. I do have some R-P cases and some Win cases and that seemed to make the difference.

    All 30 rounds were very quiet.

    IMHO it is worth finding some TB for any reduced or quiet loads. It works
    And just for your info... casting with a single cavity is about as close as you can get to zero production, while still having some production. -- Whitespider

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy John Van Gelder's Avatar
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    Quiettime

    .30-30 brass is prone to streatching, when fired in lever guns. With high intensity loads the average life span is around 5 reloads and then the cases seperate just above the web. The low pressure loading should increase the number of "goes" you get from each case. . Any time you are going for consistancy, it is a good idea to sort your cases by brand. Check case length, again .30-30 brass streaches, and if you are pushing the case up into the rifling that will produce erratic results.

    Many years ago Speer marketed a .30 cal., 100gr. half jacketed bullet. I loaded those for a friend of mine who was a little recoil sensative. Real "cat sneeze" loads, I used 7 gr. of Unique, those were deadly on Eastern woodchucks, and pretty quiet.

    I am sure you are aware of the caveat, that with the Marlin you are urged to keep velocities down with cast bullets.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check