help identify CSB powder

[tazman]

That will be a good data to compare to.
Thanks for posting that.

[jim8115]

Ok here you go;
158 Zero Lhp 1.450

4.0 Nr-485 767,750,790,782,779 AVG 773 Es 40 SD 15
4.2 NR-485 807,811,824,797,838 AVG 815 ES 41 SD 15

Looks like Taz nailed it

JIM

[tazman]

That powder seems to be a dead ringer for Universal for performance.
According to the Hodgdon data site, Universal is safe in the 38 special to 4.5 grains under a 158 grain lead bullet. I would expect you to get 875-885 with that powder charge in your pistol.

[jim8115]

That powder seems to be a dead ringer for Universal for performance.
According to the Hodgdon data site, Universal is safe in the 38 special to 4.5 grains under a 158 grain lead bullet. I would expect you to get 875-885 with that powder charge in your pistol.

Since most of what I shoot is lower velocity, i will prob run the 3.6 load mostly, load a few up at 4.2 just to have around. I can use the PowerPistol that I have for the +p's we shoot out of the wifes 686.

[jim8115]

This stuff actually seems to be a perfect replacement for my old "Favorite powder" W231, which has all but disappeared

[tazman]

I am sitting here considering trying to order some of the csb-1 as it seems to be the same as your NR-485. It is cheaper than the powders that are available here even with the hazmat fee. If I were to get 10lb and some primers it wouldn't be bad at all except for the hit my credit card would take.

[jim8115]

I am sitting here considering trying to order some of the csb-1 as it seems to be the same as your NR-485. It is cheaper than the powders that are available here even with the hazmat fee. If I were to get 10lb and some primers it wouldn't be bad at all except for the hit my credit card would take.

I cant be sure if the NR-485 is CSB-1 or -5, though it seems to be the -1. That being said, with all the other pistol powders being near impossible to get ( and we are approaching another election- you know what that means), I would get it if you can. i really like the stuff I got, and I can get as much as i want right now.

If you knew how it can be done, I would be glad to send you some. I am paying 20 a pound out the door

[sargenv]

With a 5" Para P16-40

Brass Bullet Length Powder Primer Chg High Low Avg/10 ES SD
Wt.

Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	3.70	825	769	784.70	56	15
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	3.90	835	781	819.30	54	16
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.10	881	840	855.88	41	11
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.30	900	855	876.20	45	16
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.50	908	877	896.90	31	11
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.70	930	910	921.63	20	7
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.90	964	929	946.30	35	10
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	5.10	1004	955	968.33	49	14
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	5.30	1005	973	990.70	32	8
Winchester	180	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	5.50	1029	992	1010.80	37	13

Winchester	200	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	3.70	790	746	768.40	44	14
Winchester	200	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	3.90	837	791	807.80	46	13
Winchester	200	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.10	839	807	825.60	32	9
Winchester	200	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.30	854	835	847.00	19	5
Winchester	200	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.50	891	852	873.80	39	11
Winchester	200	TC	1.151	CSB-1	Win SP	4.70	918	869	894.30	49	14

Mixed	158	LRN	1.170	CSB-1	Win SP	4.90	1018	934	979.00	84	25
Mixed	158	LRN	1.170	CSB-1	Win SP	5.10	1058	971	1013.50	87	23
Mixed	158	LRN	1.170	CSB-1	Win SP	5.30	1056	1028	1043.20	28	10
Mixed	158	LRN	1.170	CSB-1	Win SP	5.50	1092	1046	1066.90	46	15
Mixed	158	LRN	1.170	CSB-1	Win SP	5.70	1106	1049	1073.90	57	16

For Comparison

Mixed	170	JHP		NR485	Win SP	4.60	915	829	885.00	86	26
Mixed	170	JHP		NR485	Win SP	4.80	963	920	934.90	43	11
Mixed	170	JHP		NR485	Win SP	4.98	970	918	938.90	67	15
Mixed	180	LSWC		NR485	Win SP	3.80	822	736	782.40	86	25
Mixed	180	LSWC		NR485	Win SP	4.20	855	799	827.40	56	17
Mixed	180	LSWC		NR485	Win SP	4.40	887	808	859.10	79	24
Mixed	180	LSWC		NR485	Win SP	4.60	912	864	892.00	48	14

9mm Data - Glock 34 - Comparison of primers and cases.. then compared between barrels.

Brass Bullet Style Powder Primer Gr Wt. BBL High Low Avg ES SD

Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	2.94	KKM	828	782	806	46	16
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.14	KKM	861	831	843	30	11
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.24	KKM	897	842	864	55	20
Fed	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.24	KKM	875	856	865	19	7
Rem	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.24	KKM	903	861	879	42	15
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Fed SPP	3.24	KKM	877	871	873	6	2
Fed	147	FP		CSB-1	Fed SPP	3.24	KKM	901	833	869	68	26
Rem	147	FP		CSB-1	Fed SPP	3.24	KKM	883	856	872	27	10
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Rem SPP	3.24	KKM	885	869	878	16	6
Fed	147	FP		CSB-1	Rem SPP	3.24	KKM	893	869	879	24	9
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Tula	3.24	KKM	878	855	870	23	9
Fed	147	FP		CSB-1	Tula	3.24	KKM	872	861	865	11	4
Mix	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.24	KKM	890	840	866	50	18

Winchester	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	2.94	Lonewolf	840	811	825	29	10
Winchester	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.14	Lonewolf	875	847	861	28	12
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	880	865	874	15	5
Fed	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	894	857	872	37	16
Rem	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	890	868	877	22	9
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Fed SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	914	877	891	37	15
Fed	147	FP		CSB-1	Fed SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	883	859	872	24	9
Rem	147	FP		CSB-1	Fed SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	924	865	883	59	24
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Rem SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	931	870	887	61	25
Fed	147	FP		CSB-1	Rem SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	922	875	889	47	19
Win	147	FP		CSB-1	Tula	3.24	Lonewolf	900	868	882	62	14
Fed	147	FP		CSB-1	Tula	3.24	Lonewolf	876	854	864	22	7
Mix	147	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	3.24	Lonewolf	888	873	881	15	6

Also more comparison between CSB-1 and NR485

Brass Bullet Style Powder Primer Gr Wt Barrel High Low Avg ES SD

Mixed	125	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.50	Lonewolf	1143	1116	1129	27	8
Mixed	125	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.30	Lonewolf	1116	1081	1101	35	11
Mixed	125	FP		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.10	Lonewolf	1102	1058	1073	44	15
Mixed	125	FP		NR485	Win SPP	4.50	Lonewolf	1157	1114	1144	43	12
Mixed	125	FP		NR485	Win SPP	4.30	Lonewolf	1146	1086	1108	60	18
Mixed	125	FP		NR485	Win SPP	4.10	Lonewolf	1120	1067	1083	53	15

And a gun comparison.. Para P18-9 - 5" and Glock 34 with 5" LW barrel.

Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.30	Lonewolf	1196	1168	1181	28	10
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.50	Lonewolf	1211	1183	1197	28	10
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.70	Lonewolf	1271	1219	1237	52	21
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.80	Lonewolf	1289	1216	1249	73	26
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.90	Lonewolf	1305	1263	1284	42	15
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.30	Para 5"	1132	1079	1109	53	24
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.50	Para 5"	1158	1124	1139	34	14
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.70	Para 5"	1193	1154	1176	39	17
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.80	Para 5"	1221	1159	1190	62	23
Mixed	109	SWC		CSB-1	Win SPP	4.90	Para 5"	1239	1200	1216	39	17

38 Super with 130 gr LRN

Brass Bul Wt Pwder Primer Chg High Low Avg ES SD
Wt

Starline

130

NR485

Fed 100

4.40

1101

1063

1083

38

16

Starline

130

CSB-1 (Univ)

Fed 100

4.40

1133

1077

1100

56

13

[sargenv]

Whew! Fpr the ones that say like 3.24.. I throw 10 charges and the total weight comes to 32.4 gr.. divide by 10, and I come up with the 3.24.

I was curious about how much difference primer and case capacity might make.. hence the 3.24 gr charge being the one thing remaining the same besides the firearm, and the other changes I made.. primer and case.. with bullets being the same also. It took a few weeks to compile all of this data.. I was surprised at the difference between the Para Barrel and the Glock Lone Wolf Barrel.. the 109 SWC is actually a Lee 105 GR SWC but my alloy made it 109.

One thing I did notice was that the NR485 is position sensitive in large cases (41 magnum in this case).

I have data for it.. and that data is for powder away from the primer (gun tilted down), powder close to the primer (gun tilted up) and random.

I did not record ES and SD for these loads.. unfortunately.

The legend is the usual..

Brass Bullet Wt Powder Primer Pwd chg High Low Avg Powder Position inside the case.

Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.67 746 675 724 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.67 927 850 895 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.93 846 728 780 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.93 951 928 937 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.93 910 835 871 Random
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.25 868 781 827 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.25 994 953 977 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.25 914 840 877 Random
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.54 901 857 871 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.54 1023 981 1004 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.54 957 884 916 Random
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.85 953 896 915 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.85 1070 1036 1052 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.85 1044 949 1000 Random

[jim8115]

Sarge, regarding the NR-485 in large cases.... I founf that with the 38 , it likes a bit tighter crimp than I normally use for the 38

light crimp
.38 158 Zero LHP 3.6 NR-485 1.460
711,661,662,676,691,596 AVg 666 ES 115 SD 39

With a tighter crimp
706,719,694,713,695,706 AVG 705 ES 25 SD 9.8

JIM

[tazman]

That must have taken an incredibly long time to compile. Thank you for posting that information.
Now we have more data to use for decisions and comparisons.
Looks like the differences shown between your NR485 and CSB-1 are fairly minimal and could be normal lot to lot variation.
I find the data for the 9mm particularly useful as that is one of the cartridges I load for. Also that the powder is position sensitive.
I guess the only questions I have right now is how completely does the powder fill a 9mm case with the 4.3 grain load?
Did you happen to notice if the powders were temperature sensitive as well?

[sargenv]

It was nearly filling the case in the 9mm and even in the 40 S&W when it got to the heavier charge loads. I think it matters when there is a large amount of room like in the 41 and 44 magnum, and any other case where approaching max charge only fills a portion of the case.. I don't own any straight wall cases over the size of 41 magnum.. I was looking for a consistent powder and found Solo 1000 (unobtanium) to have the best performance.

I didn't test for temperature sensitivity either.. I guess I could work up some load data like that.. The nominal temps for my testing was in the 70-75 degree range. Basically, West coast near the bay mid-summer where it was not scorching hot.

[sargenv]

Jim8115:

Tightening the crimp is likely a good thing, but you should also load say 15 rds.. 5 shots tip the gun forward every shot, 5 rounds tip the gun back every shot, and then do 5 random.. ie, just let it be where it is when spinning the cylinder and/or not doing anything specific. Measure that over a Chrono.. I don't do it at much in semi auto cases, but it is important to me shooting icore since the cases sit with the powder against the back of the bullet away from the primer..

[jim8115]

Sargenv, have you tried it for light 357 loads?

JIM

[sargenv]

Jim8115,

Not yet.. too many other irons in the fire.. But when I do I have a good selection of bullets for it.. and 3 different platforms..

[jim8115]

Jim8115,

Not yet.. too many other irons in the fire.. But when I do I have a good selection of bullets for it.. and 3 different platforms..

Understand that, If i get to it before you, I will post results. Mostly shooting 158 zero JSP, and Hornady XTP from a 6"gp100, 2 1/2 "686, and a 4"model 28

[sargenv]

4" 686, 6" GP100, Marlin 1894C

[jim8115]

4" 686, 6" GP100, Marlin 1894C

You, my friend, have good taste in shootin irons !!

[sargenv]

Why thank you

I used to have a pair of 5" 627 - 8 shots but had to sell them.. I also at one point had a 686 plus, sold it to finance a different gun..

[jim8115]

Why thank you

I used to have a pair of 5" 627 - 8 shots but had to sell them.. I also at one point had a 686 plus, sold it to finance a different gun..

Actually, my wife's 686 is a 7 shot plus