black powder and 9mm auto how to?

[Mooseman]

People were eager to help you until your attitude showed its ugly head in chat and you basically questioned the integrity and info provided by a lot of the senior members here and that got you banned from chat. You have shown total disregard for safety and your ambiguous questions are getting annoying. I suggest you either start listening to our members here , read more thats already posted on the forum such as stickys, get yourself some reloading manuals , and stop fooling around where the things you are doing can injure or kill innocent bystanders and yourself. If you can't do that , I suggest you find another forum to troll.

[birddseedd]

People were eager to help you until your attitude showed its ugly head in chat and you basically questioned the integrity and info provided by a lot of the senior members here and that got you banned from chat. You have shown total disregard for safety and your ambiguous questions are getting annoying. I suggest you either start listening to our members here , read more thats already posted on the forum such as stickys, get yourself some reloading manuals , and stop fooling around where the things you are doing can injure or kill innocent bystanders and yourself. If you can't do that , I suggest you find another forum to troll.

and this is a perfect example of why i get an attitude. i am getting really freaking tired of people telling me i am going to kill someone. you have no place to say this kind of foolishness. and apparently you weren't paying attention. i did not question anyone's integrity. Someone said something that doesnt make sense to me. so i asked questions about it. asking questions to gain more understanding is not judging someones integrity. to say so is just foolish. and please. tell me what advice i havnt taken? pretty sure iv done pretty much everything everyone has said.

I am really getting sick and tired of being judged by people who have no real clue what is going on simply on the basis of asking follow up questions. especially when those people cant give any real answer or response to my questions.

[birddseedd]

oh, and before i get banned. thank you to those who shared their experience in this. I will give it a shot, but knowing what gun i will be doing it with i do not expect superb results. non the less it does show that it is capable of working. So iv got a starting point. still have much reading and studying to do on black powder before i could feel comfortable trying anything. but it will be fun to learn about anyway. so thank you very much

[Tackleberry41]

Its a funny thing, everything else is the problem, a bad pot, bad mold, bad gun, bad bullets, etc, etc, etc. When we had a car that came in with all sorts of phantom issues, that nobody else could replicate or hear, we always said it was the nut behind the wheel that needed adjusted.

[birddseedd]

bad pot... took forever to heat lead. New one worked perfectly

bad mold... wouldnt drop bullets out of the box. New one did it perfectly out of the box

bad gun... was confirmed by the gunsmith and two other shooters.

bad bullets... i wont use that home made lube again. Didnt work well at all. Been using a different lube since then without issues. Not sure how this is blaming someone else but ok.

[Mooseman]

Well excuse me , But , We do have the right to tell you you are dangerous and what you are doing can harm others. I have been loading and shooting for longer than you have been breathing and I have seen the disasterous results of foolish loading and not paying attention.
Guns blown up, bolts thru peoples heads, bystanders bleeding from shrapnel. It happens , and if you dont understand you are dealing with high pressures and a controlled explosion next to your face then you should get out of reloading and take up knitting. You Do NOT want to follow proven loading data, you want to do everything your own way, and that is Arrogance on your part. Your attitude here and blaming everything and everybody else except yourself is not gonna get you far on this forum , and I can see why you were banned on several others forums...grow up and get a clue. You are putting a black eye on reloading and gun safety in my opinion and it will come back to bite you. You have been warned.

[country gent]

I gave you the issues to be delt with the means to do it and the reasons its going to be a problem. Bound and determined in this instance means if your going ahead even after all the nrgatives and problems outlined here.Black powder is bulky and takes a big case to get enough in to make what is needed to work. Thats why 45 colts, 44-40, 38-40, and other black powder rouds are full sized rounds. Some modern rifle rounds have the same basic capacity as these do now. The 9mm just dosnt have the capacity for a decent charge of black powder. Even the derringers of the time in 32-38 caliber used around 30 grns in the loadings close to double what your charge is going to be and they were considered under powered and anemic in the day. Black powder will only produce velocity to a point a heavier bigger bullet is need to increase power with it. Thats why the work horse of the day 45-70 used 500+ grain bullets. Read up on the old true black powder cartridges research what they were then fill a 9mm case with powder to bullet depth and wieght it see how it compares. Having loaded the old timers both smokeless and black those big old cases suffer with smokeless due to to much airspace in the cases and shine with black. Modern rounds after or around ww2 shine with smokeless correct capacity and suffer with black due to not enough capacity. I tried to help and give advice from what I could., you took one line and made it derogatory.

[waksupi]

and this is a perfect example of why i get an attitude. i am getting really freaking tired of people telling me i am going to kill someone. you have no place to say this kind of foolishness. and apparently you weren't paying attention. i did not question anyone's integrity. Someone said something that doesnt make sense to me. so i asked questions about it. asking questions to gain more understanding is not judging someones integrity. to say so is just foolish. and please. tell me what advice i havnt taken? pretty sure iv done pretty much everything everyone has said.

I am really getting sick and tired of being judged by people who have no real clue what is going on simply on the basis of asking follow up questions. especially when those people cant give any real answer or response to my questions.

I would very very seriously suggest you take words of wisdom from staff members to heart.

[dragon813gt]

And another one. Just replying so I can follow. His threads keep getting better.

[Boogieman]

A 9mm loaded with 3f black would be about ljke an old 38 rimfire short. They were loaded with BP. The biggest danger would be from a stuck bullet. I don't think it would cycle the action ???? having shot both muzzle loaders & autoloaders for over 40 years I wouldn't want to have to clean the gun.

[waksupi]

After looking through his posts, he is as dangerous as the previously banned Cam, if indeed he is not the same person. I would check his ISP, to be sure he isn't out of Ontario Canada.

Ah, I see I am too late. Banned.

Aloha, oh dangerous one.

[MT Chambers]

regardless of op's status...9mm case too small for charges that would reach decent velocity.
Action would not function with low pressure of those BP rounds.
BP would dirty every nook and cranny of the wundernine pistol.
Using BP in many cartridges makes some sense( even modern cals.), but in this case, there are no positives.

[Springfield]

A 9mm is a small case and MAYBE it won't hold enough to cycle the action without a light spring. As for getting dirty, my old Colt 45 acp works fine with fffg BP and a heavier 260 grain bullet(454190). I only get about 750 fps, but the cases seal the chamber pretty good and I get minimal fouling. Not a real high power round but I sure wouldn't want to get shot with it. Why BP in a 45? Because I shoot wild bunch cowboy shoots and it is just more fun, is perfectly safe and makes people think. I won't try BP 9mm with my Browning Hi power, too nice a gun, but maybe with one of my beater 9mm's, just to see how it goes.

[GIJeaux]

I wouldn't waste my time with BP in a 9mm and agree with the good advice given but, I do remember reading an article once where they loaded Cast bullet .380 ACP with BP and shot them in a MAC-11. They shot 3 magazines, (30 rounds each?) full auto, with no malfunctions. While trying to find that article I ran across this Youtube video of a guy shooting his .380 with BP: .380 ACP with BP

Al

[M-Tecs]

I have zero interest in loading BP 9mm’s but I wonder how they did it back in the day of the small pinfires and rimfires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_(firearms)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinfire


http://www.chuckhawks.com/history_rimfire_ammo.htm

The common .22 Short cartridge dates from 1857. It is the oldest cartridge still being loaded today. It was the first American metallic cartridge, introduced in for the first S&W revolver, a pocket pistol developed for personal protection. It was popular during the American Civil War, carried as personal weapons by soldiers on both sides.

The .22 Short is a development of the BB cap using a 29 grain round nose (RN) bullet in a lengthened case (compared to the BB Cap). It was originally powered by 4 grains of fine black powder (about FFFFg).

This gentlemen has some crono info on 41 Colt short with 9 grains of BP

http://home.earthlink.net/~mhclary/BlackPowderCartridges.pdf

Are very own loading 22LR with BP

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?167745-Black-Powder-22-s

Claims of 750 FPS with the 32 rimfire using 9 grains BP and 80 grain bullet.

http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/32S&WNo2.htm

Info below copied from second post.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-193271.html

Most of my information comes from Frank C. Barnes's valuable reference book, Cartridges of the World. My copy is the Third Edition printed in 1976, but it has a lot of old information from the First Edition from 1966

There were actually several .32 RF cartridges in circulationfor a time:
.32 Extra Short
.32 Short
.32 Long
.32 Long Rifle
.32 Extra Long

The .32 Short RF was arguably the most produced. Introduced under the Smith & Wesson patent of 1860, it was used in the original S&W No. 2 and 1-1/2 tip-up revolvers which became so popular as a sidearm during the War for the Liberation of the Southern Confederacy. It is still loaded and is listed in current catalogs. . . . Original load had an 80-gr.bullet and 9 grains of black powder. Stevens single shot rifles were available in this caliber as late as 1936. While no velocity is given in the text, we can make some fairly educated guesses based upon those .32 centerfire cartridges which immediately succeded the RF number.

The .32 S&W (CF) was introduced in later production of the No. 1-1/2 revolver in 1878, replacing the .32 RF. Production did not fully switch over to smokeless powder until about 1940. It is logical to assume it was loaded to approximately the same level as the old BP rounds. The factoryload is listed as an 85 gr. bullet at 705 fps.

The British .320 revolver cartridge was introduced in 1870 for the Webley revolver. It was the inspiration for the later .32 Short Colt,and was manufactured in the US but discontinued in the late 1920s. Barnes wrote that it is (WAS, more likely) still made in Europe and England. Factory load:80 gr. bullet at 550 fps.

The .32 Short Colt (.650" case length) was introducedin 1875, and late production ammunition is said to run an 82 gr. bullet at 790fps. It is noted that the Colt revolvers of that period were far more robust than the little tip-up S&W designs of 15 years before.

Given the above information, a pretty good estimate of the.32 Short Rimfire cartridge specifications would be an 80-gr. bullet at about 650 to 700 fps from a 5" revolver barrel.

[Springfield]

M-Tecs; none of those guns were a self loaders.

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs; none of those guns were a self loaders.

Like you I have seen it done with the Wild Bunch shooters in 45 acp. Unlike you I have not done it. Maybe someday. Short of stuck bullets I am trying to understand why BP would be dangerous in a 9mm.

Some 9mm, 45 acp & 380 semi autos shooting BP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuDJMd8bUDI 9mm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfzQ4uKvE7c 45 acp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsCgLBhtbM8 9mm Beretta 92F with FTF issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gEJ...tVtxA7ZNc18d8D 45 acp


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5WG_79Pxns Beretta 84f 380 taken from GIJeaux post above

[fishhawk]

Only thing I can think of with fouling build up (not sure how fast it would build up) the gun may not fully seat a round in the chamber and may fire out of battery.

[Lead pot]

I shoot or have shot black powder in most of my rifles and hand guns with very good results and some not so well.
As far as black powder not cycling a self feeding hand gun I have not found that to happen when I shot some in my .45 gold cup and .38 S&W master. The .45 shooting the hard ball bullets functioned very well with out and stove pipes. The .38 Master shooting full wad cutters functioned very well and the 25 yard accuracy was great.
I load .22 long rifle factory new primed cases with 4.5 grains of 3F OE powder and those loads don't take a back seat compared to the Wolf Match .22 ammo.
Yes the velocity is just slightly lower, between 950 and slightly under 1000 fps depending how much I compress the powder.
A lot of comments are made from posters that have not shot or even loaded blk powder in a hand gun cartridge or shot a hand gun with a full blk load. If they ever did they would soon find out that the recoil is substantial compared to a smokeless load.
Most of the self loaders came about after smokeless came around and it took favor because the way it functions a self loader, but this does not mean that black powder wont function a self loader.
Even the modern day revolvers are different than the older once before smokeless. The tolerances between the cylinder and forcing cone is looser so the wheel don't bind up from the fouling. You can stick a bullet with a squib load but it is very unlikely that you will stick one that had blk over the primer.
My auto loaders will not fire if the slide is not in full battery.

LP.

[2TM101]

I know this is a ten year old "necrothread" but it still comes up in searches. So here is information from 2023

I bought a 6" KKM Precision stainless barrel for my work issued Glock 17 so I could fire my own cast lead bullets. I tried it with max loads of BP and it will function whreas the standard factory barrel is too short and it dooes not have time to build up enough power to cycle. I did this one time only just to see if it worked (well 50 times really but I made one box). What survivalists often overlook is that powder and bullets are easily made it will be primers that stop you. And actualy I do make percussion caps that work just great.

9mm Auto is a bad idea, however, 9mm BP in a revolver is not. I have two colt 1873 clones that use 9mm and I load it like its 38 short colt because it pretty much is, both smokeless and BP. I wanted the smaller case for reduced loads and I have an unlimited supply of used 9mm brass - and no other type. so I do everything I can with it.