A question on Lyman 310 38Spl/357 Die Sets - work on 38 Colt Long & Short?

[bedbugbilly]

I've tried searching for this and I am probably not looking in the right place. I recently picked up a Lyman 310 tongs/die set for 38 spl and 357. I like doing things the old "vintage" way and even though I load on a Lee Classic 4 hole Turret - I'm looking forward to using this 310 set "just for fun" - both smokeless and BP.

I normally just load 38 spl but have a new Handi-Rifle so will be doing some 357 as well. In addition to this I'm going to be playing with some 38 Colt Short and Long loads as well - again, both smokeless and BP. Between the 38 spl, 357, Colt 38 Short and Long - I'll be using cast boolits from a Lyman 358311 (158 gr. RN) and a Lyman 358242 (121 gr. RN) - both boolits seat to depth with the same amount protruding.

So my question is this . . . . with the adjustment in the 310 38/357 dies - can these dies be adjusted to load the 38 Colt Long and Short (which have the same dimensions as the 38 spl with the exception that they are shorter).???

I haven't had a chance to try this set out yet nor have I dug out my 38 Colt Short and Long brass. I've been trying to find a chart or reference that would tell me if this can be done but to no avail. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with these dies and those particular cartridges?

If necessary, I could have a longer seating stem made for the seating die and it looks like the expander die might work but didn't know if there is any references out there that would show?

Thanks. Greatly appreciate any information. The 310s really interest me and I have a feeling I will be getting more calibers!

[Char-Gar]

I don't know if 310 38 special dies are too long for the shorter cases or not having none of those cases to try. If they are too long, they are very easy to shorten the die bodies in a lathe. I have done it several times and the die bodies, with the exception of the sizing die are quite soft. Individual dies in 38 Special are common and cheap on eBay.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks Char-Gar - appreciate the info on the die shortening. I'm going to pull some of my 38 Colt Short & Long casings out today and will try them later this week. I was hoping there might be a reference chart or something that might give the info. Shortening the necessary dies makes sense if the standard 38/357 dies won't work on the shorter casings.

I do have another question. Not having played with these yet - does the de-priming die (with the pin) also size the casing as a normal larger die does? The outfit that I bought (used but like new) came with three dies. 1. De-priming/sizing die 2. Expading die 3. Seating/Crimp die 4. Priming die and 5. Neck resizing die????

Does not the de-priming/sizing die "re-size" the casing as a normal die set does? If so, what is the purpose of the "neck resizing die"? (I am assuming that the de-priming die that I have also is a sizing die?). I understand where a person might use this die if they were shooting the ammo in just one revolver and the brass was fire formed to that pistol's chambers but doesn't the de-priming/sizing die take care of that making the "neck resizing die" un-necessary?

In looking at the 310 die sets on MidwayUSA - the 38/357 die set comes with the four dies that I have but not the "neck resizing die". I'm just curious in what situation it would be used with straight walled pistol cartridges?

[Char-Gar]

This size Lyman dies came in sets for either the Tru-Line Jr. turret press or the 310 tong tool and they were not the same at least some of them were different.

Lyman 310:

1. Muzzle resizer die which resized just the top part of the case so the bullet would be a decent fit.
2. Depriming die
3. Priming die
4. Expanding die
5. Bullet seating and crimp die

Later 310 sets combined the depriming and muzzle resizing die into one die making it a four die set instead of the previous 5 die set.

Tru-Line Jr:

1. Full length sizing and depriming die
2. Expanding die
3. Seating die
4. The set also came with a priming post (small or large) and J shell holder for the Tru-Line Jr. press.

You do not want to try and use the full length sizing die in the 310 tool. There is not enough leverage to do the job. But maybe you should try it anyway, like I did, to learn the hard way. Those kinds of lessons stick with you.

Cases sized with the muzzle resizer will do just fine in the pistol they were fired in originally. They may or may not work in other handguns depending on the size of the charge holes. If the fired cases will interchange, then you are OK, if not then a full length resize is needed.

Lyman makes adapters for these small dies so they can be used in the standard 7/16 X 14 threaded presses.

Lyman also made "Shell Resizers" which were full length sizing dies that we used by hand and not in a reloading press. Cases were driven in and driven out. These worked fine but medium or larger bottle neck rifle cases, required the use of a vise or arbor press to give the muscle to size the cases with this method.

[bedbugbilly]

Char-Gar - Thanks very much for the information - greatly appreciated. Thank you also for the warning on the full length resizing die and the tongs usage! LOL The last thing I want to do is "learn the hard way! I appreciate your warning on that one!

I'll have to take a look at my "de-priming" die again - I may be incorrect in thinking it is a "resizing" die. Not really a "biggie" as I'll probably be using the casings in just one pistol (the 38s) and the 357s in one rifle (Handi-Rifle). For my other pistols (36s and 357s) I'll use my standard dies. I could always resize my brass in my standard resizing die before using the 310 tong set as well.

I did order a "universal de-priming die" for the 310 - right not, even in my standard cartridge reloading I remove the de-priming pin from the sizing dies and use that die for resizing only. I do all of my de-priming with a Lee universal de-priming die on a separate single stage RCBS Jr3 press.

I ordered a "bushing" to adapt the 310 dies to a standard size 7/8-14 as well just in case I wanted to use the 310 dies on my single stage.

Thanks again for the great information and the warning on using the tongs for full resizing. I learn enough from my own mistakes so it's nice to be able to avoid one!

I'll let you know how this all goes!

[Char-Gar]

I do all of my depriming with a 310 tool, whether the cases will be loaded with the 310 tool, hand dies or press mounted dies.

I deprime over a shallow cardboard box. The spent primers go into the box and I turn the tool up so the case now falls into the same box. It works pretty fast.

Adjusting a depriming die is very easy. Close the handles and run the stem down until the pin contacts the other side of the handles. Now back the stem/pin off 1/2 turn and screw the lock ring down to hold the die in place and you are good to go.

I load thousands of 38 Special each year and they are all loaded with the 310 tool, but I do FL sized the cases on the press with a 1950s RCBS steel die. I FL size the cases as I have quite a few 38 Special handguns.

[bedbugbilly]

Char-Gar - Well, I did a little "cleaning up" in my reloading area and dug out my 38 Colt Short and Long casings.

1st off - you were indeed correct! The de-priming die I have does not resize. I decided to load up a couple "dummy" 38 spls. just to see what I did have. Whoever owned this set before me was obviously reloading 38 sol. as well.

I love how the de-priming die works - I can see why you use it to de-prime with!

My 358311 and 358242 boolits are "as cast" and are a fat .359. In spite of that, they seemed to seat OK and the neck sizing die worked well too. I didn't fool with the seating die but it needs a little "fiddling" with to seat the boolit just a tad deeper and I'm hoping I can get it adjusted to put a mild crimp in it. The "dummy round" was tight in my cartridge gauge but it went right in to the cylinders of my Uberti Bisley and Ruger New Vaquero. I have another half dozen 38s/357s and I didn't try them in those but I probably won't be shooting them as much as I will be the Bisley and NV.

It does appear that there will be enough adjustment in the dies to accommodate the 38 Colt Short and Long. The only question will be on the seating die. If the seating stem doesn't adjust far enough for the 38 Colt Short - then I'll probably follow your suggestion and pick up another seating die and have the die shortened to work if I can find someone who has a lathe. (I sure miss not having access to one anymore!).

I'm going to finish my "clean up" job this afternoon and will try to load some Colt Shorts to try out tomorrow.

i have a spare single stage to take with me when we go out to our place in AZ (to leave there) but I can see I'm going to really love this 310 set-up! Our garage faces the desert across the street and I enjoy sitting in the garage, watching the birds and wildlife out in the desert. I can't think of a better thing to occupy my time than to sit and watch that and use this 310 tool! At my age, it's not about how many rounds I can turn out but rather the enjoyment of making each one. I'm already thinking of how to make a wood carrying case with all the "necessities" neatly fitted in for this tool to make it easy to transport and take where ever I might want to re-load.

Thank you so much for "educating" me on this - it's all "new" to me but I have a much more clear idea of what the 310 is all about now. Using this tool sort of reminds me of when I used to sit around a camp fire at night at muzzleloading events and cast boolits with a bag mold and a ladle heated by the coals. Doing things the "old way" or the "slow way" may not appeal to a lot of folks, but for me, it's relaxing and enjoyable.

Thanks again!

[Char-Gar]

Looks like you are off to a good start. Be very careful, 310 tools are addictive. I have full sets in 30-30, .308, 30-40, 30-06, 303 British, 8MM Mauser, 38/357, 44 Spl/Mag, 45 ACP/AR and 45 Colt.

If at some point, you want to shorten a die, send it to me. I have a lathe and have done it before. No charge, just return postage.

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you vey much! As soon as I can play with the 38 short and see about the seating stem length/die length I'll get right on finding another die to shorten if need be. Greatly appreciate your kind offer!

[Wayne Smith]

You will almost certainly need to shorten a seat die to crimp the shorter cases. If you can get along without a crimp then you should be good to go.

[Green Frog]

Hey Char-Gar, you need to go for some of the older hyphenated calibers like 25-20, 32-20, 32-40, 38-55 and 45-70, then you'll have excuses to buy a bunch more rifles! Works for me!

Froggie

[catskinner]

Some neck sizing dies for the Tru-line Jr. have an expander ball on the decapping rod. If you use one of these in a 310 tool you can get the neck sized but the extractor hook swings away from the case and won't pull the case over the expander ball. I found this out the hard way and ended up sawing the head off the case in order to get it out of the die.

[Green Frog]

Some neck sizing dies for the Tru-line Jr. have an expander ball on the decapping rod. If you use one of these in a 310 tool you can get the neck sized but the extractor hook swings away from the case and won't pull the case over the expander ball. I found this out the hard way and ended up sawing the head off the case in order to get it out of the die.

Those dies are definitely intended to use with the TL Jr press.

Froggie

[Char-Gar]

Hey Char-Gar, you need to go for some of the older hyphenated calibers like 25-20, 32-20, 32-40, 38-55 and 45-70, then you'll have excuses to buy a bunch more rifles! Works for me!

Froggie

I have rifles in 25-20, 38-55 and 45-70. I have handguns in 32-20, but nothing in 32-40. Still time to get one though.

[Char-Gar]

Some neck sizing dies for the Tru-line Jr. have an expander ball on the decapping rod. If you use one of these in a 310 tool you can get the neck sized but the extractor hook swings away from the case and won't pull the case over the expander ball. I found this out the hard way and ended up sawing the head off the case in order to get it out of the die.

Yep, Tru-Line Jr. dies alright. But you can remove the decapping rod/expander ball and use them to neck size in the 310 tool. Decapping and neck expanding will have to be done with other dies.

[44magLeo]

I have a 310 tool for 44 Spl and Mag. It works very well. some of the most accurate ammo I've shot came from that tool. The neck size only and the feel you have in the crimping stage lets you have a very consistent crimp, helps with the cartridge being centered in the chamber and more consistent ignition.
I like the M step on the expander. The expander has a section that is smaller than the bullet diameter, it has a step, then is slightly larger than bullet diameter. With this adjusted so the step and larger portion enter the case about 1/32 inch or so, eases entry of cast boolits. When crimp this step gets turned into the crimp groove.
Leo

[skeettx]

And if you need more length in the 7/8x 14 press, take the adapter and thread it in from the bottom of the thread hole and not the top and you can move the die closer to the top of the ram/shellholder.

Mike

[Green Frog]

Hey bedbugbilly, how's the move and new setup going? As I was rereading this thread it dawned on me that there is a great way to carry 310 handle and die sets, the nylon pouch Lyman used to sell that looks like the cleaning kit pouch for an old M-16 (or you could just find a surplus M-16 cleaning kit pouch! ) I'm also a big believer in 30 cal and 50 cal ammo cans to store a bugout kit of reloading gear for apartment or temporary home usage... the larger 50 cal size will have room for the 310 kit, a little electronic scale, a powder measure, and supplies - a box of bullets, one of primers, and a 1# can of powder. I'm not a prepper who dreams of carrying this stuff into the wilds to fight off commies and zombies (or is it ISIS and al Quaida? ) but for the situation you describe it should be a pretty good solution.

Froggie