Optimum BHN for hunting deer/bear(black) sized game

[tahoe2]

I bought some 180 grn RNFP w/GC for my 8mm mauser and some 200 grn RN w/GC for my
7.65 mauser. Both are rated at 14-19 BHN and I plan to achieve 1600 to 2000 fps; I will be
hunting @ 50 to 200 yards in broken timber and small clearcuts. Just wanted some opinions
on the BHN factor of these two boolits, which are made from a Lyman's #2 equivalent. If these
are too hard, I will save them for plinking and stick to J-bullets for hunting.
Any and all help appreciated, as I'm new to hunting with cast boolits.

[Loony44]

tahoe2
Lyman #2 equivalent 14-19 BHN that you have to me is a rather big difference. If it were me I would get newspaper and bundle about 24" thick, bound together as tight as possible and soak in water a couple days. Shoot at the distance you think your shot will be and see what or if you get the expansion you want. If you have the ability to HP the bullet it help. The 180gr RNFP will probably be better than the RN. You can use a flat file and make a FP from the RN. Hope this helps. Loony44

[tahoe2]

Isn't 2' of wet newspaper excessive, I didn't think the game described would be that tough?
But I'll try it and see what happens.

[Loony44]

2' of newspaper is to trap the bullet. You will be surprised at how deep the bullet will penetrate and you are looking for expansion. If you get no expansion, I would go with a different bullet that would expand.

[Hickory]

For myself, and in the 30-30 that I use for hunting, I like to keep the BHN around 10-12.
With antimony 1-2% and the tin about 4-5%, it expands well and has a small amount of toughness to hold it together.

[13Echo]

A bullet that is too hard with antimony will either not expand or will shatter. You are looking for an alloy with enough strength to be shot to the velocity you want and not so strong that it won't expand and enough toughness to hold together when it does. Glen Fryxel has several articles on the LASC site that discusses bullets and bullet alloys. The one on cast bullets in the 30-40 Krag should be enlightening.

http://www.lasc.us/articlesfryxell.htm

Jerry Liles

[MBTcustom]

What I would say is that if you don't have a BHN hardness tester, then don't worry about BHN.
What I have always figured was a rule of thumbnail LOL! If my thumbnail can barely scratch it and I mean barely, then it's just about right for popping a deer with at the velocity you describe. For my hardness tester, that is right at 9-10 BHN.
The thing you have to figure though is that as your flat nose (meplat) gets larger, the less expansion you need because the shock wave that flat point sets up when it hits is going to be impressive.
Now on the other hand, you can go too far in all directions and produce too much damage (see the link in my sig line). In that case, I was shooting a soft boolit (again, 9BHN) with a fairly large meplat, and I was driving it at 2150FPS. This was the equivalent of shooting exploding tip projectiles. Too much sauce!

In you're case, I would not shoot those boolits at deer. You need something that you can control. If you contact member 338RemUltraMag he just did a group buy for a lovern mold that has a flat point on it. If you buy that mold and cast with an alloy that you make by cutting COWW lead 50/50 with SOWW lead, and then add about 2% tin (easily done by weighing out equal amounts of COWW and SOWW, and then just running a length of lead free solder into the pot) I think you will find that hardly any critter on the continent needs to be told twice to roll over and die.

You could see if Josh could cut that mold with a .325 cavity and a .315 cavity? Ha! Bring on the awesome!

[white eagle]

as hard as it is for new casters (myself included)try not focus to heavily on BHN of your alloy
be more concerned on where it goes.If you don't hit what your aiming at the BHN is insignificant

[mikeyman]

"cast with an alloy that you make by cutting COWW lead 50/50 with SOWW lead, and then add about 2% tin (easily done by weighing out equal amounts of COWW and SOWW, and then just running a length of lead free solder into the pot) I think you will find that hardly any critter on the continent needs to be told twice to roll over and die."

Goodsteel - that is the exact alloy that I use. I am casting using NOE 311 165Gr. RF (big meplat) for a 30-30 marlin targeting black bear and deer. Not sure if I should be water dropping these boolits for a little extra hardness of just air cool. What do you guru's think? Thanks.

[quilbilly]

Not sure how hard it is but I use my own alloy that is 30-40% hard chilled shot, remainder pure lead, and a little tin per pound which I water cool. This alloy gets 18-20" of penetration in compacted wet phone books at 40 yards with excellent expansion with the 160 gr Lee RNGC from my 30/30 at 1550 FPS and 24" of penetration from my 6mm Rem with the 87 gr Lyman RNGC at 1900 FPS. I haven't tested the terminal ballistics of my 308 with that alloy of boolit at a hunting load at 2000 FPS but I suspect I will need more than 24" of wet phone books and is more than adequate for bear out to 125 yards. Since WW are hard to come by around here (been illegal for several years), you might consider this alloy as many roofing contractors in Seattle have roofing lead to get rid of and chilled shot can be regularly found at estate sales in our area.

[44man]

You can even oven harden 50-50 for a harder outside to take rifling better without harming expansion, But I found I still needed a gas check.
I feel the alloy itself is more in control then BHN numbers.
Watch the SOWW's, my last batch was about 75% zinc. Better to toss the junk.

[RugerFan]

as hard as it is for new casters (myself included)try not focus to heavily on BHN of your alloy
be more concerned on where it goes.If you don't hit what your aiming at the BHN is insignificant

Exactly! (with the exception of linotype which is too brittle)

I've taken a number of deer and hogs in GA with a .308 Win and .358 Win using round nose and flat nose boolits. Alloy was Lyman #2 (or harder). The blount metplats created significant wound cavitation in lung tissue resulting in very quick deaths. This included behind the shoulder shots where no major bones were hit.

[Forgetful]

FWIW, the flat nose is more important than hardness. The flat nose will crush its way through. Spitzers and round nose will zip through unless it has a hollow point or is soft enough for deformation.

[RugerFan]

FWIW, the flat nose is more important than hardness. The flat nose will crush its way through. Spitzers and round nose will zip through unless it has a hollow point or is soft enough for deformation.

I've had hard cast round nose boolits create very sufficient lung damage.

[Forgetful]

Never said it wouldn't be sufficient Just saying the FN is more important than hardness.

[popper]

#2 or commercial hardball can't be worse than jacketed (unless exposed tip). I'd probably sight in with the LFN, compare with the other 2 so you have a choice - can carry some of each - just in case. Black bear tags or just SD?

[pls1911]

AMEN!!!
Your answer is simply this: hard enough to not lead your barrel....and use a gas check!
To extend my lead supply, I cast soft, heat treat HARD, and shoot 'em.
More than a few deer and too many hogs to count have dropped in their shadow from shoulder shots with this humble alloy loaded in 30/30 in early slab sided Marlin '93s and '36s....