Good first muzzleloader on a budget.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

First, my budget is preferably under 200, but can stretch it to 300. I've shot my dads cva bobcat with 100 grain loads when I was 12 and I handled it easily. I'm 14 now and am pretty sure I can handle 150 grain loads. I already have all the supplies I'll need, just looking for the rifle. The cheapest I could find is the cva buckhorn for 125 bucks. Is it worth the extra money to get a wolf or another one? I don't care if it's traditional or inline, and I will be using it on deer within 150 yards.

[Beagle333]

What's wrong with the Bobcat? You can pick one up for about 80 bucks, and 100 grains is easily more than you'd need. If I recall correctly, you can't get more than about 120 grains of powder to completely burn in the distance/time travelled in a .50 caliber barrel anyway.

[Good Cheer]

Sending you a PM.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

What's wrong with the Bobcat? You can pick one up for about 80 bucks, and 100 grains is easily more than you'd need. If I recall correctly, you can't get more than about 120 grains of powder to completely burn in the distance/time travelled in a .50 caliber barrel anyway.

It's my dad's, I'm lookng for my own.

[Beagle333]

Sorry... I was implying that you might buy another one, just like that one. (if you wanted to keep it low priced)

[indianadeerhunter2018]

Sorry... I was implying that you might buy another one, just like that one. (if you wanted to keep it low priced)

Oh that makes since. If I could find one like it I'd want one. I don't know where to pick one up though.

[Janoosh]

I'm not flaming you but there is diminishing returns when shooting black powder. Only so much velocity can be attained in a certain barrel length and 120-150 grns seems excessive to me. Ive used 80 grns PRB in a thompson center hawken to 100 yds and there were two holes in the deer. I now shoot 80 grns in a quick twist barrel hawkin and a sabot (44 cal boolit) and have taken deer to @120 yds, although I prefer to get closer.
I sure some old timers will chime in with a clearer explanation about barrel lenght and black powder burn rates.

[waksupi]

That large of a load is WAY too much. If you shoot that much where I am range master, I would probably remove you from the course.
With a muzzle loader, find the most accurate load, and hunt with it. I only shoot 95 gr.fff in my .62 rifle, 75 gr.fff in my .54. and 45 gr. fff in my .40. All of them will kill a deer with no fuss, and the .54 and .62 can handily deal with elk and bear.

I would look for a Lyman Great Plains rifle. It may cost a bit more, but would be worth it.

[Pb2au]

+1 on the Lyman Great Plains rifle.
Fun rifle, accurate and it won't break the bank. If I didn't like mine so much I sell it to ya.
Keep an eye on the papers, gun shops and the like. They seem to always turn up.
Good luck to ya!

[indianadeerhunter2018]

That large of a load is WAY too much. If you shoot that much where I am range master, I would probably remove you from the course.
With a muzzle loader, find the most accurate load, and hunt with it. I only shoot 95 gr.fff in my .62 rifle, 75 gr.fff in my .54. and 45 gr. fff in my .40. All of them will kill a deer with no fuss, and the .54 and .62 can handily deal with elk and bear.

I would look for a Lyman Great Plains rifle. It may cost a bit more, but would be worth it.

On the cva website it says the buckhorn will handle 150 grain magnum loads "with ease". And the new remington is based around a 200 grain powder charge. Why would you say it's too much?

[725]

I use several of those Bobcats in a Black Powder course I teach in a local summer camp. Fantastic rifles. Some have well over 5,000 rounds through them. Punching paper at 25 yards, I use 50 gr. of FFg and that is quite snappy for the purpose. If I'm not mistaken, the gun is rated for a max of 100 gr.FFg. FFFg is even more pressure. Like stated above, 80 gr or 70 grs with a round ball will pass through both sides of a deer with ease. Don't go for the bigger is better stuff. After about 75 grs., you will see a decrease in accuracy. Experiment to find the most accurate load for that gun and stick with it. Trying to make it a hot rod isn't the way to go. Happy hunting and be safe.
Your buckhorn is a nice rifle and is a step up from the bobcat. Enjoy it, and follow whatever the company says to do. Just don't shy away from the lighter loads as a matter of course.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

After taking a look at my dad's bobcat I noticed the barrel is rusted internally. And I think it's over bored because I had to put 3 patches on a .490 round ball in irder for it to fit properly. Is this going to be a problem with most used guns? I know my dad hadn't used it in 3 or 4 years, so will I have to regularly disassemble and clean the rifle even if I don't shoot it often?

[Janoosh]

Patch thickness varies greatly. I use 010 in my 50 cal flintlock with a 495 ball. I use 018 with a 490 ball in my hawkin 50 cal. It all depends what your gun likes and performs best with. All trial and error. And range time.
As to the powder charge, I was taught that you load and shoot until the projectiles no longer rise on target and the load is accurate. That load will be what your gun tells you it is. Good luck...and above all else...be safe and have fun.

[starmac]

You need to clean them every time you shoot them. I made the mistake of not cleaning mine ONCE for about a week after I shot it.
That said, good servicable used ones can be picked up and pretty reasonable.
Don't overlook the Cabellas store brand either. I have had a 54 cal for close to 20 years, and it will shoot better than I do. I have just in the last week purchased another one right here on the swapping and selling. Total cost including shipping was 186 bucks, just today purchased a 50 cal TC scout, which are loved by some, and hated by some, but I like them and they work well for left handed shooters. Total cost on it is 225 bucks to my door. The nice thing is there is no ffl cost on them, at least in most states.
A couple of weeks ago, I bought a bobcat from a member here, I forget the price, but it was reasonale, he was gracious enough to clean it before he shipped it, and found his brother had not cleaned it after shooting, so tore up my check instead (with my approval) of shipping it.
They are probably the cheapest legal fun a guy can get into, and completly capable of taking any game you care too.
I like 54, would actually like to go bigger, but if I was in your position and location, I would look for a 50 cal, it will do anything the state of indiana has to offer, and components are everywhere for them.
I will go with no reason to go with all the powder you can pack in them. When I first got into them, it was to hunt elk, and I stupidly thought I needed magnum charges, the only thing I gained out ofthe extra powder was a swelled up head thathurt for two weeks. lol

[waksupi]

On the cva website it says the buckhorn will handle 150 grain magnum loads "with ease". And the new remington is based around a 200 grain powder charge. Why would you say it's too much?

Just because it can "handle" it, it doesn't mean it's a good idea. THOSE ARE PROOF LOADS! I would pretty much guarantee it is not the most accurate load. It sounds like they got that information from George Nonte's muzzle loader book, which should be collected and burned from all of the unsafe loads he has in it.
But, what do I know? I've only been shooting them for 40 plus years, and building them for 30 +.

[wgr]

i shoot 70grains of 2f with a patch round ball and there is not a deer in the state it wo,nt shoot through. even shot one with 50 grains and got a pass through. 80 grains in my 54

[hc18flyer]

+ one the Lymans Great Plains, super rifles. I also have a Thompson Center New Englander, fitted with fiber optic sights for 50 year old eyes and low light conditions that works GREAT in a tree stand. I too have been muzzleloading for 25+ years. 70 grains of BP over a roundball or 80 behind a ball-et/250 REAL bullet is perfect deer medicine! It is truly easy to keep your smokepole clean. I have never used oil in any form, or any type of cleaner! Find a good 'bore butter' or shooting lube and stick with it. When you get home, use hot water and more lube, dry it out, and lube it again. Keep your powder dry and 'watch yer topknot'! Flyer

[hornady308]

For a good muzzleloader for under $200, I'll take any used TC or Investarms sidelock that's in good condition. Investarms makes the Lyman and Cabela's rifles. For deer, any of the standard calibers from .45 to .54 will work fine. I've always loved the TC Renegade due to the relatively compact size combined with the stout stock.

[triggerhappy243]

Attachment 115278Indianadeerhunter.......if you are looking for a used rifle, then this tip and tool is worth the cost of admission. you can buy this cool little bore light for muzzleloaders at most shops that carry a good supply of accessories. made by CVA and Traditions, it is a little mini flashlight you drop down the bore of the rifle. lights up nice and you can see if there is any rust/pitting. When going shopping carry a patch jag and a few clean patches. dry swab the bore and drop this light down the bore.... lighted end towards the muzzle. you can see any pitting all the way down to the breech. I swear by them.... worth its weight in gold.

[Pb2au]

After taking a look at my dad's bobcat I noticed the barrel is rusted internally. And I think it's over bored because I had to put 3 patches on a .490 round ball in irder for it to fit properly. Is this going to be a problem with most used guns? I know my dad hadn't used it in 3 or 4 years, so will I have to regularly disassemble and clean the rifle even if I don't shoot it often?

More is not necessarily better as a good general rule.
I have played around with inline guns, (and in fact have a Remington 700 inline going up for sale soon) and yeah, you can maintain some semblance of performance with stout loads of powder and 'modern' projectiles. What Waksupi was pointing out is that in general, it simply both not required and can impede accuracy in many cases.

Where some shooters may prefer different granulation of powder, (2F or 3F) in almost all cases, the total charge tends to stay well below a hundred grains. My Lyman shoots extremely well at 70 grains of 2f powder, .490" round ball and a patch. Another 50 caliber rifle I owned was a joy to shoot at 55 grains. Under the sound advice of those here, I found my 20ga trade musket shoots round ball extremely well at 65 grains of 3F. For reference in this case, the ball for that gun is .600"
See the pattern emerging?
I hope this helps!