Ongoing Saga of .22 Hornet rifles

[koehlerrk]

..."you must feed all rounds from the magazine." just isn't so. A number of new 527s in the 222/223 chambering that I have or have had, feed a cartridge easily into the chamber by placing it on the empty magazine follower and just closing the bolt(single shot mode).

Being close copies of the Mauser, those that do not come to you doing this are easily modified with a minimum of polishing of the bolt claw angle, to do so. Search several of the classic post-WWII gunsmithing books, Ray Dunlap's comes readily to mind, which explain the tuning method. Perhaps Kuhnhausens' does also. You see, many claw extractor Mausers in military calibers will do this without change, and the 527 CZs are no different. Perhaps an inquiry on our gunsmithing forum will give the instructions from an experienced smith in adjusting the extractor.

BvT

Well, all I can say is that my smith showed me a mauser with a broken extractor. He said "This is what happens when you don't feed them from the magazine." It's not difficult to load the mag, so I guess I'll keep playing it safe. What you do is up to you...

[Hickok]

I did try my CZ to see if it would feed without placing the round in the magazine, and it works perfectly. The loaded round feeds slick and easy.

I hope to get out today and try some cast boolits if the rain doesn't interfere.

[Jack Stanley]

I remember once trying to feed eight m/m rounds directly into the chamber of a 98 Mauser . My LUX is nothing like that difficulty . I thought I remember reading in the owners manual that it was safe to load them single shot if desired , though I do use the magazine most of the time .

Now if CZ would only market a left hand twenty-two magnum , it would look nice beside my left handed LUX model

Jack

[Hickok]

Back from shooting. Using Lyman #225438, alloy approximating Lyman #2, weighing 44 gr., sized .225", Gator gc's, CCI 500 primer, Tac 1 lube, 1.715" OAL, 6gr/ 2400 powder, getting groups 3/8" @ 50 yards.

Charges above and below 6 grains opened groups up to 3/4-1.0 inches.

Didn't get to shoot at 100 yards, but 3/8" groups at 50 are plenty good for squirrels! Later I hope to shoot the load at 100 yards, but I am happy with the Lyman #225438.

This CZ 527 is a great little rifle!

[detox]

Remington 22 Hornet brass is thinner so it has a larger capacity than Winchester. The Sierra 45 grain Round Nose bullet is a good shooter and works in rotary magazines. The older 1680 (pre 1996) is the best powder for this cartridge.

[HoosierShooter]

I enjoyed the Savage 219 postings as I also have a 219 in 22 Hornet. Great ground hog rifle. Shooting j-words due to some pitting in the bore.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Well, all I can say is that my smith showed me a mauser with a broken extractor. He said "This is what happens when you don't feed them from the magazine." It's not difficult to load the mag, so I guess I'll keep playing it safe. What you do is up to you...

All smiths are not created equal! Some smiths are not! BvT

[Jtarm]

Well, all I can say is that my smith showed me a mauser with a broken extractor. He said "This is what happens when you don't feed them from the magazine." It's not difficult to load the mag, so I guess I'll keep playing it safe. What you do is up to you...

I love Mausers but controlled feed is highly overrated, IMO.

I read once that Maynard Buehler of scope mount fame had to flee for his life a couple times while hunting rhino. Both times his Mauser rifles had a round in the chamber, but the bolt wouldn't close over it.

My Hornet is a Ruger #3. I may have to find another since my 12-yo son has laid claim to it.

[Hickok]

This may or may not be of help, but here it is for consideration. The Hornady 40 gr V-max is too long for the CZ magazine, and I have several hundred of these bullets. I found an easy solution, simply take a small pair of pliers and remove the plastic tip. The plastic tip is easily extracted from the nose of the bullet, twist left and right and pull it out. (In fact Nosler sells their Varmingeddon bullets both ways, with a plastic tip, and without in hollow-point form.)

This leaves the V-Max bullet much shorter and with a hollow-point.(Better in a 16 inch twist) They shoot excellent out of my rifle. ( also works with Sierra 40 gr Blitz.) I also found that a load of 10.5 gr/H110 with the V-max shoots to the same point of aim at 50 yards as a cast boolit load of 6 gr./ 2400 and Lyman #225438, at least in my rifle. This is great, as I can carry squirrel loads and longer range varmit loads and use both with the same scope setting.

.22 Hornet specific jacketed slugs are nearly impossible to find, as companies have quit making many of them in order to catch up on other more popular bullets. But the Hornady 40 gr V-max is available and can be used in many Hornets by simply removing the plastic tip, no alterations needed to magazines, for those times when a j-word bullet is needed or wanted.

I can highly recommend the CZ 527 in .22 Hornet.

[koehlerrk]

All smiths are not created equal! Some smiths are not! BvT

Also true, Baron... but this one has never steered me wrong. He may be overly conservative and a touch old fashioned, but if he said I could do something, it would work, and if he said to not do something, well I decided I'd rather listen to his advice than take the chance. Like I said, loading the mag on the CZ isn't a tough job anyways, so I see no harm in running round the way they were designed to be run. Maybe my rifle can handle drop ins... but I'd rather not find out because with my luck Mr. Murphy would be standing there, ready to break things for me.

Hickock, the best 22 Hornet j-words I've found today have been Sierras. Both their 40gr pills, HP and SP feed and shoot beautifully in my Savage. Might have to try the V-maxes though, thanks for the tip!

[9.3X62AL]

My Hornet is a Ruger #3, with which I am very happy. Speer 45 grain Hornet-specific bullets seem to be its favorite so far, and its former owner said good things about 35 grain Hornadys--which have been unobtainium since I acquired the rifle a year or so ago. The little single-shot did some good work on rats this Spring in northern NV.

[35remington]

koehlerrk, I can think of any number of rifles with Mauser extractors that will accept rounds single loaded in the chamber. Ruger is another example, for instance. Either your gunsmith simply hasn't gotten the word or you heard him wrong and applied his advice to all rifles with Mauser extractors. It is one or the other.

No need to live your life scared. Use updated information or apply the information correctly. Said by a guy who's been reloading his Mauser extractor rifles one at a time for years. These were the type that accept single loading and I know it. It's time you knew it too.

The benefit of correct information is to learn from it. Now is that time. Drop a round in your rifle at home and see if it extracts. Mr. Murphy is left out of the equation, and you will learn something. If we are wrong, and we won't be, you can always bump the round out with a cleaning rod. To break a Mauser extractor first requires someone to pound the bolt over a round that just won't accept the extractor. You will do neither.

[Hickok]

As to single loading the CZ manual that came with my rifle has this to say;

NOTE: Loading is also possible for single cartridges by directly inserting into the chamber without the use of the magazine.

Hope this eases any concerns about damaging the extractor.

[35remington]

koehlerrk.......time to drop your fears now, for sure!!!!

[fouronesix]

There is no right or wrong answer to the single round loading for CRF extractors. The gunsmith is simply offering and following a recommendation that will never cause a problem. There are many external claw CRF Mauser and Mauser type extractors that if left in original configuration, not modified or were not designed to do so will jam the round into the chamber and not ride over the rim. Some will and some won't- simple as that. So any absolute statement to the contrary is not based on experience or knowledge.

[35remington]

An absolute statement can in fact be made as to the question of single round loading for CRF extractors. If the manufacturer recommends it, it is proper to do so.

And my statement is based on both experience and knowledge. Since knowledge is easy to obtain by querying the manufacturer of the rifle, it is best to find out rather than remain ignorant.

There is, in fact, a right answer. Ask the maker. How difficult can this be? Ignorance has a price as well. Don't knowingly pay that price by remaining silent and assuming.

[9.3X62AL]

I hear ya, 35 Rem. I just strive to avoid "forcing" anything mechanical, whether it be automotive- or ordnance-related. Habit obliges me to load autopistols or CRF bolt rifles from magazines, because the designer intended for that to occur. Generic in form and foolproof in execution. It's how I roll.

[35remington]

That is okay. What we're trying to avoid is blanket statements in terms of applying them to other's actions as happened earlier in this thread. Loading a Mauser type action by dropping rounds directly in the chamber is often not at all harmful, and was the point being made. Many manufacturers directly and specifically intend single loading to the chamber. This is hardly "unknowable."

The other point was that knowledge gives multiple choices of action. There are times when single loading is handy....or possibly lifesaving. If your rifle specifically allows it after determining this is so by asking the manufacturer, getting "warned" not to do so is not advice I'm going to pay attention to, and with good reason. It's because I know something the other fellow does not. It would be remiss not to point this out.

[koehlerrk]

Well, the general consensus is that I'm working from outdated information... I'll try single loading a dummy round tonight and will let you all know.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Regarding the Hornady v-max 40 grain bullet, it is quite possible to gently hold the bullet in your drill chuck or other suitable implement and find that a few strokes of a file will easily remove the red tip. My practice has been to leave a skosh of red plastic above the jacket and to shoot them in a 65 Winchester Levergun, 218 Bee with great accuracy. I Imagine it works in a Hornet too allowing for a variation on seating depth with perhaps better accuracy for the reloader with a stacked magazine.

For those with the Ruger 77 22H, you can disassemble the magazine, file (carefully) the front metal of the magazine and seat the pointy (or amputated) red tips out further and have them function perfectly in that Ruger magazine. Mine accepts 1.845" OAL cartridges. This also works with boolits, allowing for a bit of seating depth discretion, sometimes giving a bit better accuracy.

BvT