44 mag Keith Loads

[mrdante]

Forgive me if this has been posted before. I have been a member of the forum for several years mostly a lurker and very seldom a poster, but I have search and can't quite come up with the answer that is as black and white as I want.

I have been loading the 44 mag for nearly 10 years, and using the Keith design 429421 for about 5 of those years. I know that Keith's load was 22grs. of "Hercules" 2400 and I have heard that since Alliant has taken over that the formula was changed (so some on the internet say and other say different) either way I have always stayed away from the "22grs of 2400". The "hottest" Iv'e loaded was 19.5grs. My question is has anybody had any real world (Chronoed not just blast and said "at'll work" experience with 22grs of "Alliant" 2400 and if so what was your results.

I have several Ruger SBH's and have always heard the term "Ruger Only Loads" and thought if this particular load would apply. I also have several 44 mag rifles. One a Ruger Carbine (I am not afraid to fire lubed bullets through this. A lot of people are concerned with gumming up the gas port, but I have never had a problem) and I have a couple of Marlin levers. Do these fall under the "Ruger Only" label.

I have shot what I would consider hotter loads with H-110, N-110 and Lil' Gun, with the Keith boolit and others (heavier and lighter), but again I can only go back to my 19.5gr loads to compare.

Thanks for all the input.

[softpoint]

Ive shot 20.8- 21 grains 2400 with the Keith bullet for ages. I'm sure I've chronoed it, just can't remember when. Its a very good everyday load in everything, Rugers, Smiths, Winchester 94's etc.

[fecmech]

I have chrono'd Hercules and Alliant 2400 in a number of different cartridges and have not seen any more than normal lot to lot variations. I have chrono'd 22/2400/Fed LP/429421 out of my 7.5" Super BH, I'm not sure if it was Alliant or Hercules but as I said I've seen no difference. The velocity avg for a 12 shot string was 1363 fps. When I shot Silhouette I used 296 instead as accuracy was better but 2400 was very good.

[Clay M]

I always used 22 grs of 2400 in my Ruger Redhawk. With a 240 gr bullet I got just over 1400 fps in the 7.5 " barrel. It does a lovely job of killing deer.I think it is a hot load for some lesser revolvers,but the Redhawk digested them fine .

[Char-Gar]

I started with the 44 Magnum about 1963 or so and used the Keith load of 22/2400 but quickly backed down to 21 grains as the 22 grain charge really smeared the primers in my Smith 29 and Ruger OM Flatop.

For the past 30 years 10/Unique or 11/AA5 is my load under the Keith bullet. This load will deliver 1,100 fps and kill anything in Texas graveyard dead.

[Clay M]

I think 21 grs of 2400 might be a good top end load for most revolvers.I like 2400 best in all my magnum revolvers for high velocity hunting loads.I have also used a good bit of Unique and Red dot in my .44 mags for target loads.

[mrdante]

Thanks for all the quick reply's. I think I will work up to the 22grs and try it. Thanks Fecmech, this is the first time I have herd of someone actually comparing the 2 brands.

I will post my Chrono results in the near future.

[Clay M]

The load is deadly accurate in my Redhawk. The only problem I noticed is shortened brass life.
For a hunting load it will deliver.I think I killed eight deer with that gun and load. I never lost a deer.

[DougGuy]

There have been many threads on several forums comparing Al2400 to H2400 and they all pretty much summed up one thing, there is no more difference in brand to brand, than there is lot to lot in the same brand. If I was really squeezing every bit of accuracy I could squeeze, I would want to retest or at least rezero every time I switched lot numbers regardless of brand.

Personally I love H2400 because it's what I came up with in .44 magnum. Since I have gotten on this forum, I have gotten away from the J bullet, and the K boolit and went to the Lee RF boolit because the ogive of the RF boolit and an 11° forcing cone are a match made in heaven for a SBH revolver.

The thing I use 2400 for these days is my hunting loads where I don't want the max I can get, but instead I want 1150-1180f/s and it isn't cool to download H110. 2400 and also LilGun work great in this 85% power level.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Unless you have a need for the flatter trajectory, what Char-Gar said about the 10/Unique load is very true. I've been killing lots of deer over the years with a .45 250 Keith at 900 fps (even milder than his suggested load). I don't think driving those big solids lots faster with more wear and tear on every part of the system is gaining anything.

[Char-Gar]

Thanks for all the quick reply's. I think I will work up to the 22grs and try it. Thanks Fecmech, this is the first time I have herd of someone actually comparing the 2 brands.

I will post my Chrono results in the near future.

A couple of thoughts....

1. Chrono results only matter is you are hunting chronos. They don't taste very good.

2. Given time and experience, most shooters learn to back off from red line loads.

3. In regard to No. 2 above. I remember the words of Will Rogers, i.e.; "Some folks learn by reading, some by watching and some by listening, the rest have to pee on the electric fence.".

[PWS]

Damn, Char-Gar, spot on!

In my youth, I too was a speed freak. As time has gone by, I've come to realize that that extra 50-100fps only beats up the gun and shooter more and doesn't show up on target.

FWIW, 22gr 2400 runs 1350-1400 in a variety of 4-6" barreled .44Mags that I've played with. Lately, I've been running 19-20gr for a reliable mid-1200 fps load and it's doing everything I need it to do without being so violent in the smaller revolvers I prefer.

[Clay M]

I started using the load when the Redhawk came out. I had met Elmer Keith some years before. He was my hero. The load worked so well, that I never considered changing it.Lesser loads WILL kill, but I like a load that will break both shoulders if necessary.All my shots have not always been bow shot.

[Char-Gar]

Keith wanted a 44 Special loaded to 1,200 fps with his bullet as he had handloaded (18.5/2400 in balloon head cases and 17.5/2400 in solid head cases) for years. Remington came out with a longer case and a hotter load than he requested, as the bullet ran 1,400 fps. Remember that Keith was looking for an elk, moose and big bear load, and his bullet as 1,200 fps was the ticket. The extra 200 fps was just gravy.

You can certainly break both shoulders of a whitetail or mule deer with his bullets going 1,000 fps. Such a load will shoot through and through on a deer no matter where it is hit. I am talking solid point here and not hollow point. I can testify that it will so do, as I have done it multiple times.

The truth of the matter is any bullet 40 caliber or larger, weighing 200 grains or more, going 900 fps or more will kill any deer in North American stone cold dead with any decently placed shot.

Keith was a knowledgably fellow, but he was not infallible. More than a few of his loads published in the 50's and 60's were hotter than the hinges of hell and pushed the red line. Backing off a little never hurt the performance one bit. He blew up more than one handgun with his experiments.

I for one am not going to tap dance on the edge of an abyss just because Elmer Keith did it.

[mrdante]

This is more for just the knowledge of what the load will do especially in my rifles. Although I will be going on a bear hunt in a couple of months and would really like all the horse power I can get. I haven't decided on the load or powder as I am testing a variety of each in my guns, I haven't even decided what gun I'm going to take. I know my SBH will be my side arm.

I have always enjoyed load development.

[softpoint]

My everyday load here on the farm is not even the Keith boolit anymore, or any of the LBT, or Lee designs, although I like all of them, I have started using a 250 grain full wadcutter with about 21 grains of 2400. Doesn't have the long range accuracy of any of the other designs, but what it does when it hits something under 50 yards saves it's reputation.

[Clay M]

The original question was ,"Has anyone use the Keith load?" I have with great success ,and will continue to do so. The Redhawk is more than capable of handling this load.

I shot my Redhawk with the Keith load recently. It felt like shooting a childs toy next to my X frame 500 S&W.

Even thought I am an excellent shot with many years experience, I use nothing that is marginal. Not in rifle or handguns,

I have 50 yrs field experience,and have killed well over 100 deer with a .22 LR on up.
As Robert Ruark said," Use Enough Gun"

[mrdante]

Again thanks for the reply's. softpoint that is a pretty nasty lookin' bullet. Looks like a brick wall!!

I have several Lee molds including the 310gr, that I love, but it doesn't cycle in my rifles or fit in my 629 (it's too long). I have thought about reducing the load and setting it deeper i just haven't had time to mess with it.

Has anyone had any luck with doing this?

[Clay M]

I always used cast bullets with WW air cooled for the best results with deer. SWC works great.

[mrdante]

I have also always used WW, it just makes since on the wallet. I do water quench them for my 30 cal's and 8mm.