Class act, NRA. Better if you sent nothing.

[Recluse]

To me being rich in the spirit is more valuable than any material wealth and the Bible seems to confirm that. It also warns in nearly every book of the Bible of the dangers of the other wealth, the one that you have decided to pursue. Of that I am not envious at all but actually have pity for you and others that have put wealth at the top of their priority list.

Daniel,

You're treading in very dangerous waters and doing so with a suspect life preserver.

Who do you think you are you to judge me or my faith or how I choose to exercise it--especially since you seem to have an issue with success in the secular world.

If you want to start selectively quoting the Bible, how about starting with "Judge not, lest ye be judged?" Pretty apt since you have now judged me to be a person who puts wealth before all else.

Why don't you tell that to the two daughters we adopted who were in their late teens and would have had no where else to go? Tell that to the recipient of the scholarship at my alma mater that we established to help put struggling young adults through college so as to have a level playing field at a successful career.

For that matter, why don't you tell it to some of the members here who we've sent money to and continue to do so because they are in some seriously bad times?

"Offend me?" I'd have to care what you thought of me to be offended. I was judged by people like you my whole life while growing up and while serving in uniform. All it did was serve to motivate me to higher and greater things.

While we're paraphrasing Biblical versus that seem to favor your skewed stance on Christianity, how about this one from Luke 12:48 and an explanation that goes with it--

The idea of “to whom much is given, much will be required” is that we are held responsible for what we have. If we are blessed with talents, wealth, knowledge, time, and the like, it is expected that we use these well to glorify God and benefit others.

In context, Jesus had just told a parable about being ready for His return. His disciple Peter asked if the parable was for just them or for everyone. Jesus replied with another parable in which He defines the “faithful and wise manager” as one who gives out food and other allowances “at the proper time.” When the master returns and finds the faithful servant managing his resources well, he “put him in charge of all his possessions” (Luke 12:42–44). We have been entrusted with certain things, and faithfulness requires that we manage those things wisely and unselfishly.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/much-giv...#ixzz3BtX9zwrX

To that end, Dan, some of God's gifted people have been entrusted with much and as such much is expected of them. Many of those people you have deemed "unworthy" of God's blessings--and yes, success if very often a direct blessing from God--give back tenfold.

We have been blessed and we give back. Our house is old, modest and small at just under 1800 square feet. We've yet to ever own a brand new vehicle of any type. We have never vacationed overseas or for more than ten days ANYWHERE in our entire lives. We are frugal and we save as much as we can because we give back as much as we can.

The problem, Dan, is when people like you only see what successful people take in and not what they give back.

I do not measure success by my checkbook, but rather by how well I try to be a good and faithful steward of the gifts I've been blessed with. Luke 12:48. Look it up.

[Bullshop]

I have judged no one I was just responding to and going by what you posted. I was also just sharing one mans opinion that seems to have triggered a not too pleasant response. You seem angry or guilty or something I don't understand for where you are. Why are you so offended ? If you are happy with the results of your struggle be content with that and what I think shouldn't ruffle your feathers so.
I appreciate the Bible verse you offered as it helps make my point. I didn't write the Bible I just read and believe it and as I tried to point out in almost every book there are numerous warnings of the dangers of possessing wealth. I am not condemning anyone just pointing out the danger that the Bible offers everyone, not guilt but danger.
Think about Judas the one that betrayed Christ. In what way was he different than the rest of the disciples? The answer is that he held the money bag for all of them. I see that one difference as what corrupted him even after he saw as all the others all the miracles done by Jesus. Please don't misinterpret my meaning as I am not saying or insinuating that wealthy people are corrupt or evil. What I am saying is just what the Bible says, BEWARE THE DANGER! No judgment of anyone by me just passing on the warning. I figure its quite important to pay attention to because it is written in so many books of the Bible in so many places in those books and in so many different ways.
I don't really want to continue in this further as everything I have tried to say has been taken wrong or the meaning changed into I never said. I think I have made myself clear now. If you are still offended there is nothing left for me to offer accept that I am sorry you feel that way.

We have a difference in opinion and it will remain that way.

[fatelk]

Thank you also Bullshop, for clarifying your perspective. That's what I like about this forum; folks can discuss stuff like this without getting into nasty flame wars.

Yeah. That ought to pretty much put the class-warfare stuff to bed here.

Class-warfare seems to be a natural part of human nature. It's always been around and always will be. For what it's worth, I tend to live a little more along the lines of Bullshop but I can kind of understand the other side too. I don't begrudge anyone the fruits of their labor and I know that some people work a lot harder than I do. Is Wayne LaPierre worth his half-million? As the face of such an important national organization, yeah I suppose he is. I wouldn't want his job.

When I was much younger, a friend of mine was an OR nurse. She was known to be honest and trustworthy so there were several doctors who would ask her to house-sit whenever they went on vacation. Her brother and I would often stop by to visit and have dinner whenever she was house-sitting, and I remember being impressed by where these doctors lived. They were not mansions or sprawling estates but they were very nice houses on beautiful land out of town. I remember feeling a bit jealous and irritated because health care is so expensive and burdensome for lower-middle-class folks and here these rich doctors were sucking it up living like kings.

As I got older and began to realize just what it takes to become a successful doctor (years and years of school, internship, residency, incredibly long hours and responsibility), I began to not begrudge them for having some nice things. No, not at all.

We're all different. Some people have a lot more energy, drive, and motivation. We have different priorities and want different things out of life. I have a hard time understanding financial success being a priority over family, but that's just my perspective. Like Waksupi said, being wealthy doesn't make you bad. What you do with that wealth is more important.

The Bible doesn't say simply being rich is evil. It says the LOVE of money is evil. I have tremendous respect for those who are wealthy, but live modestly and go out of their way to help people any time they can. My irritation is with the people who strut around like peacocks and think they're so superior because they have all the fancy toys in life. Some wealthy people are just as bad at propagating class warfare, when they look down on less financially successful folks with disdain and contempt. I have no respect at all for people like that, just as I have no respect for people who think they're entitled to free stuff just because they're poor. (Being poor doesn't make you somehow morally superior either of course. I think it's being CONTENT in life that is the real blessing.)

Is Bullshop's perspective class warfare? I don't think so, not at all. The real class warfare people are the ones out stirring stuff up; the "Occupy" idiots screaming about "Fat cats with billions while poor people starve". OK that's not right, but what do they want?
"You have millions and I don't. Where's MY millions? Why don't I have millions? YOU need to give me some millions so it will be FAIR!"

[dtknowles]

$250k is a very average living wage in Westchester county NY where houses cost over $1 million, property taxes run $30-40k and private school is unobtainable. It is in fact lower end income for many suburban Westchester communities and puts one solidly in the middle class when down the road in Greenwich the hedge fund managers are driving Bugatis and taking the helicopter out to the beach house in Fisher' s Island. It is somewhat relative.

It is only somewhat relative. Some things cost pretty much the same no matter how expensive the real estate or how rich the neighbors. The price of gas, the price of a F150 pickup truck, the cost of a phone, the cost of a college education, the price of powder or lead. When you have a Million dollar mortgage a $60,000 car does not seem like a big deal. When you have a $100,000 dollar mortgage a $60,000 car is probably a big deal. Nobody in Winchester Co. NY is middle class, you are all rich but maybe not as rich as your neighbors.

Tim

[Ajax]

Writing letters to your reps, and going and seeing them makes a huge difference. Here in Pa we got castle doctrine passed by doing just that. I write probably 30 emails and letters a week, don't take long, email is copy and paste, 15-20 minutes a letter. They represent you, how can they if they do not know what you want?

Andy

[Bullwolf]

To me being rich in the spirit is more valuable than any material wealth.

Sorry to quote you out of context Bullshop, but I believe got the gist of what you were saying and I found it a noble sentiment.

It reminded me of a Native American quote from Chief Maquinna, Mowachalt - who died in the late 1700's

Once I was in Victoria, and I saw a very large house.
They told me it was a bank and that the white men place their money there to be taken care of, and that by and by they got it back with interest.

We are Indians and we have no such bank, but when we have plenty of money or blankets, we give them away to other chiefs and people, and by and by they return them with interest, and our hearts feel good.
Our way of giving is our bank.


While not a Christian quote, it seemed worthy of repeating here.

Thanks to both Bullshop and Recluse for participating in a mature discussion that would have surely turned to invectives and name calling on another forum.



- Bullwolf

[Elkins45]

NRA isn't perfect, but if we didn't have them I have little doubt that single shot 22 rifles and maybe shotguns are all we would be able to own today.

[southpaw]

So Wayne helps to save a couple billion dollars worth of guns a year from being destroyed, I think he is earning his keep. I will keep sending my money in.

Jerry Jr.