The dies and brass showed up so I assembled 10 rounds to use on the maiden voyage. The rifle is a new to me Farmingdale Shiloh. Here is the photo of the finished cartridges. The brass is new and I only expanded the case mouth enough to tightly hand seat the bullet. When they are fire formed they should have a bit more capacity...I hope. Accuracy testing to follow.
Drool...
That is one beautiful gun! Let us know how the recoil is too. I hear 45-90 can be a bit stiff.
Sweet! It surely is a beauty. Love the pic, but it's just a tease. More please.
One of these days I'd like to do some paper patching for the Trapdoor.
Also wouldn't mind acquiring a Sharps in the Hartford configuration with nearly all the bells and whistles.
smokeywolf
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms *shall not be infringed*.
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
- Thomas Jefferson
"While the people have property, arms in their hands, and only a spark of noble spirit, the most corrupt Congress must be mad to form any project of tyranny."
- Rev. Nicholas Collin, Fayetteville Gazette (N.C.), October 12, 1789
Beautiful rifle there and good job on the handloads. STart at just filled case with very light compression and work up in 2 grn increments from there changing nothing else. Adding 2 grn increases charge and compression both. The 1-22 twist may be fine with the heavy bullets, keep in mind the 45-90 also had an express version with a lighter bullet. That should be a whole olt of fun. I actually have worked up a duplication of 45-70 performence with my 45-90 as its mush easier on me over a days shooting.
What is the naked diameter of your bullet?Originally Posted by M71
As you fire each round, look in the chamber for any paper rings left behind.
CM
Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.
Charlie, The bullet mold is a tapered design, it's an adjustable T. Ballard .450, but I still push them through a Lee .451 sizing die. So the maximum diameter is .451 measured at the base. I'll check the bore for paper remnants, but I always wipe between shots anyway. I load my Paper Patched bullets dry. I've been reading about a dipped lubing method but I feel if it's working well it doesn't need fixed. I do however use homemade Grease Cookies when loading Grease Groove bullets (Lyman 2640132). I've enjoyed paper patching so much I haven't even looked back at grooved bullets. The benefits of the PP bullets are the accuracy, smooth bore and no leading.
If you see paper rings in the chamber it indicates short cases.Charlie, The bullet mold is a tapered design, it's an adjustable T. Ballard .450, but I still push them through a Lee .451 sizing die. So the maximum diameter is .451 measured at the base. I'll check the bore for paper remnants, but I always wipe between shots anyway. I load my Paper Patched bullets dry. I've been reading about a dipped lubing method but I feel if it's working well it doesn't need fixed. I do however use homemade Grease Cookies when loading Grease Groove bullets (Lyman 2640132). I've enjoyed paper patching so much I haven't even looked back at grooved bullets. The benefits of the PP bullets are the accuracy, smooth bore and no leading.
Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.
if that's Starline brass, you're probably going to have to anneal it.
The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
-- Thomas Jefferson
Skipper, I don't re size (full length) the brass, even when new. I do however open up the case neck just enough to accept the patched bullet, but it's really a tight fit. After fire forming if the case mouth is too loose for a good seal I'll take the stem out of the full length sizing die and compress the mouth just enough for a tight fit. It doesn't take much. That method has produced good results in my 45-70 with Remington brass. I'm not positive it will work on the 45-90 because the bullet sticks out so darn far. So based on your experience, even with very limited mouth sizing the Starline cases will require annealing?
Last edited by M71; 08-28-2014 at 06:09 PM.
They might. They're very hard when the come new and sometimes don't obturate properly at BP pressures ; sometimes neck tension is irregular.
Note from Starline:
This is a .45-70 based case that is 2.4 inches long and is suitable for smokeless or black powder loads. When loading with black powder, annealing of mouth may be necessary to allow case to properly seal chamber due to lower pressures generated by these loads. Our case is produced very strong to withstand high pressure loads associated with smokeless hunting loads and since the only way to make brass harder is to work the material our only option is to leave them stiffer so the customers can anneal for specific application.
The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
-- Thomas Jefferson
Skipper, that is some good info there, I somehow missed it from Starline. I took delivery of 200 cases strictly for bp, and I am thinking I am glad they did not get loaded yet.
The rules of the range are simple at best, Should you venture in that habitat, Don't cuss a man's dog, be good to the cook, And don't mess with a cowboy's hat. ~ Baxter Black
My cousin has my old Sharps and it is a 45-90. We-I load it with a paper-patched 550 grain bullet that is pure lead. It has made meat on several occasions. Not a bad load to use. Paper-patching works very good. My oldest boy paper-patches for his 40-82 which is over-bore otherwise. Has gotten his moose and several deer and there was no complaints from any of them!! The only thing to remember is that you need lots of spit to do it properly. Then I litely lube the bullets for over-night before clipping the tails off and stuffing them in the cases.
All the BPCR brass Ive ordered from starline has came with a tap stating For black powder cases need to be annealed. It does make a big diffrence. Another issue is with bore riding PP bullet most new die sets dont size the necks down enough for a .450 dia bullet to fit lightly snug. I only size enough to hold the bullet lightly. I seat the bullet by hand onto the powder wad stack. It is a light friction fit that will hold the bullet. Works well in single shots bit repeaters are diffret also.
M71
I have one of Tom's tapered moulds like that. In fact the ogive looks just like mine.
That bullet shoots very well in my Shiloh 2.4. If that old Farmer has any freebore which it most likely has looking at your serial number you will be well served to patch it to .459" at the base and seat it out far enough about 1/8" to 3/16" in the case to hold that bullet.
Work up a ladder load starting with no compression and increase it by two grains with three shots each. It will take about 21 rounds to see what will be worth tweaking up better.
The old Farmers get a bad reputation for the free bore they had because the people that shot them never learned enough to feed them what shoots in them.
Keep us informed on your progress in detail. Chamber, loads and what shows on paper so others will benefit shooting the Farmingdale Shiloh's or even the early Pedersolies.
I might add.
If that Tom Ballard mould is none adjustable nose pour, it's most likely a cup based mould. If you use a dry long patch that is twisted with a slight tail tug it into the cup.
If you like using a dry or wet patch that just folds under the bullet base, turn the base plate around and cast that bullet as a flat base instead of a cup base.
Disappointing as it may be the Farmingdale 45-90 carbine had way too much head space. I fired four rounds and headed home. Don't think the rifle had ever been fired. I contacted the outfit that sold me the gun and was told to return it and they would make it right. I received a full refund and left the building with a rifle and scope that I didn't really need or even want for that matter. Problem was that they must have had a brain fart that day. They applied my credit towards the new purchase and handed me an additional $107 and change. My new rifle is a mint Weatherby Accumark in 30-378 with a Leupold LPS 3.5X14 AO 30mm tube with Leupold rings and bases. Not even a mark on the bolt face. Granted I owned one of those years ago and let it go, unnecessary case capacity, just not efficient. However as the trade went I had $1250 in the set up so what the hay, another candidate for load development. I scrounged around and got 240 brand new Norma brass and 4 lbs of 50 BMG. I'm being modest with my loads and run 200 gr pills at 3100 fps with nice results. It's sure not anything like a 1874 but I'll have to just enjoy my 34" heavy barreled 45-70 BP Rolling Block until a nice 45-90 comes along.
How did you decide the HS was off?
LG
Hav'n you along-Is like lose'n 2 good men
Yes..........I was wondering that as well.
RRR
"I Make the part.............................that makes the parts"
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The fired primer backed out considerably and a noticeable rim had raised around the firing pin dent. I also was just reminded by Charlie of another variable at play. The firing pin hole was much too large, causing the primer to expand where it shouldn't have. It was also extremely difficult to open the action. The protruding primer left a mark on the breech block as the block was lowered to open the action. Shiloh in Big Timber offered to take a look but the expense was gong to be "Uncharted Waters". It may have been remedied by a replacement breech block. A friend had an extra one to try but my attitude had deteriorated concerning the rifle.
The gun store sent the gun to their smith and his determination was the same as mine. His method for the diagnosis is unknown but a feeler gauge may have been helpful. He said it was .008 out of head space. The refund was offered and I took it. 88gr. of FF behind a 530 gr. PP was a not comfortable either.
It sure was pretty rifle but a lesson was learned: A center fire Farmingdale built Shiloh can have questionable internal dimensions and tolerances. My advice when considering purchasing one is to be very diligent, proceed with caution. Personally I'll never take one home again. On the other hand I've owned two Farmingdale 1863's and they were spot on, no trouble at all.
Shiloh has fix many of them over the years.
Did you talk to Kirk at Shiloh?
1F would have been easier on the shoulder. That said, I load 3F with a 540 PJ Creedmoor in mine-LOL
LG
Hav'n you along-Is like lose'n 2 good men
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