.357 Accuracy Woes

[hylander]

So my first couple trips to the range with my new GP100 was a bust.
All loads were with 158SWC GC and there was zero leading.
At 10yds. benched all loads looked accurate, about 1"
At 25yds. benched they range from 4" - 6"
Loads so far:
5.4 of 231
5.5 and 5.8 of Unique
I do have one load that shoots under 2.5" but that is a 125jsp under 9.8 of Power Pistol.

So just me, or keep working on the loads ?
I shoot under 3" @ 25yds. with my 1911

[gray wolf]

Well not being a wise guy here but you didn't really do a load work up by just loading one or two loads of each powder.

If your bench shooting is done to the best of your ability with good sand bags and not just resting your wrist and hands on the bench, 10 yard groups should be almost one hole,
if not just about one hole. The group ain't gonna get smaller as the target is moved further away.

My load with unique for a 158 grain LSW No check is 6.9 grains for about 1150 FPS
Why would I want to shoot a checked bullet any slower ? You may be able to find the node at a lower velocity but why shoot it so slow. for 900 FPS I use 4.2 of tight group and it's a shoot all day very accurate load.

Anyway to get the best out of your bullet and powder I would work up a load in .2 or .3
grain increments (2 or 3 1/10,s ) from the low end to just under max. load 6 of each and do the best shooting you can off the sand bags, my GP100 is a 6"

The GP100 should do 1" @ 25 yards if you do your part off the bags, then shooting while standing it's going to up to you. At least the pistol will show you what it's capable of.

Trying to get the best load takes a good amount of testing unless your willing to settle for
(( well that's not to bad ))

[grampa243]

have you dry fired the GP100 much?

just thinking that the trigger is not the same as any auto loader i have used.

when i first got my GP100 i was pushing the trigger sometimes..

[grampa243]

are you you loading 38spl. or 357mag.??

[gray wolf]

I took it he meant 357 from the way he started the post, but your question

are you you loading 38spl. or 357mag.??

Is a good one, he just may be loading 38 special, in any event, cept for my loads I stand by my advise.

[hylander]

Loading .357
Have been dry firing, not pushing trigger.
As far as working up a load, I was going by Speer and Hornady and they list 6.0 as a max load under the .357

Gray Wolf:
I see you are running 6.9, also I just read on the Ruger forum a guy running 8.0
Are the books being that conservative ?

[Pinsnscrews]

What barrel length is your GP100?

i was surprised when I pulled up my Alliant loading manual and it listed 6gr Unique as max under the 158grLSWC, however it does not indicate if that is a gas checked load or not. My Lyman books are not at hand (Alliant is loaded into iBooks here on my iPad) or I would see if Lyman had another listing.

[bobthenailer]

Try my old pet load of 4.0 to 4.5 grs of Bullseye or now Tightgroup powder, loaded in 357 cases ! has shot excellent from many guns, with 7 different cast boolets from 148 gr to 200 gr .

[gray wolf]

Gray Wolf:
I see you are running 6.9, also I just read on the Ruger forum a guy running 8.0
Are the books being that conservative ?

First of all I would never tell anyone not to follow the book loads.
I find the Lyman book a little conservative for certain loads.
6.9 unique is what I load for a 158 gr. LSW in my 6" GP100 It moves about 1150

I load 19 grains of 2400 for the 44 magnum with a Lyman 429244 gas checked 255 grain LSWC It moves a tad over 1300 FPS See if you can find that load in the new Lyman book. You won't, I think Hornady list 21 grains but I am not sure if that is for a lead bullet or a J-word.

In any case always work up your own loads, I am a conservative loader, but these are my loads. If you start low and watch what is going on you are always better off and safer.
in my Ruger SRH 7.5"

[dtknowles]

[QUOTE=gray wolf;2907821]........The GP100 should do 1" @ 25 yards if you do your part off the bags................./QUOTE]

I think this is a stretch and expecting that will lead the OP to be disappointed in either his shooting or his load. I expect that there are many stock GP100's that will never shoot at an inch at 25 yards no matter how much load development is tried. Some might shoot under an inch once in a while but not likely to shoot 1 inch average for 5 consecutive 5 shot groups at 25 yards. If you have a stock one that does, it is a treasure.

I think the OP needs to do more load development and check his throat and slug the bore. Need to get the bullet sized right, might be right but how to know without measurements.

Tim

[rogerstg]

Try my old pet load of 4.0 to 4.5 grs of Bullseye or now Tightgroup powder, loaded in 357 cases ! has shot excellent from many guns, with 7 different cast boolets from 148 gr to 200 gr .

Is it generally considered that Titegroup is roughly equivalent to Bullseye when researching potential new loads?

[357Mag]

Hylander -

Howdy !


If you are not averse to shooting a true .357Mag load w/ more " oomph ", might I suggest a load that has always shot accurately for me ( my loads, my guns )....

14.5gr WW296 ( H110 same stuff ) and SP Mag primer under your 158s ( these don't have to be GC ).
The same load also shot well using SWC's w/ boolit wt's up to 172gr ( in 4, 5, & 6" "N"-frames, and an 1894SC ).
I have not found a better shooting powder/charge/primer/boolits combo, in .357Mag .

I'd be curious to read how this load shoots for you ?!


WIth regards,
357Mag

[gray wolf]

I think this is a stretch and expecting that will lead the OP to be disappointed in either his shooting or his load. I expect that there are many stock GP100's that will never shoot at an inch at 25 yards no matter how much load development is tried.

I just went through this about the 44 mag, about 10 days ago, had to post the pictures of consecutive 6 shot clover leaf groups to prove a point.

I know what it takes to shoot little small groups at 25 and 50 yards, Especially from a sand bag. Some guns can and some folks can't-- some folks can and the guns can't.

If a person just tries his/ her best that's all anyone can ask for.
But to shoot a few loads and say " Hey it will only do 2" is not the way to do it IMHO

Last thing I am going to do is get into a argument about it.
My pistol is stock cept for a spring change and a polish here and there. Most Rugers need at least that.

I'm not quite in the mood to prove anything today, so whatever you want to believe is dandy with me. I don't say that in anyway that is derogatory to you or anyone else.

[hylander]

Gray Wolf,
I'll start moving the Unique up in .2 increments from 6.0 toward your 6.9 and see what I get.

[dtknowles]

I just went through this about the 44 mag, about 10 days ago, had to post the pictures of consecutive 6 shot clover leaf groups to prove a point.

I know what it takes to shoot little small groups at 25 and 50 yards, Especially from a sand bag. Some guns can and some folks can't-- some folks can and the guns can't.

If a person just tries his/ her best that's all anyone can ask for.
But to shoot a few loads and say " Hey it will only do 2" is not the way to do it IMHO

Last thing I am going to do is get into a argument about it.
My pistol is stock cept for a spring change and a polish here and there. Most Rugers need at least that.

I'm not quite in the mood to prove anything today, so whatever you want to believe is dandy with me. I don't say that in anyway that is derogatory to you or anyone else.

I was not looking for proof, I don't doubt you can make loads and shoot groups that small. Do you own a GP100, is it stock and does it shoot groups that average under an inch, I don't need targets, your word is good with me. Just trying to keep the OP from having overly optimistic expectations. I have never owned a GP100 but I did own a Blackhawk that I could consistently shoot groups under 2 inches it never shot a group under an inch, I can shoot smaller 25 yard 5 shot groups with other handguns (I can shoot 5 consecutive 5 shot groups under an inch with my Ruger MKII). I have read only one review of the GP100 in a magazine and nothing in the article lead me to expect exceptional accuracy from the revolver (my normal expectation is that magazine articles show guns from big names like Ruger in the most positive way). The none of the groups shot for the article, not a single one of the groups was less than an inch.

Tim

[dtknowles]

[QUOTE=gray wolf;2908785].......... If a person just tries his/ her best that's all anyone can ask for.
But to shoot a few loads and say " Hey it will only do 2" is not the way to do it IMHO

Last thing I am going to do is get into a argument about it.
My pistol is stock cept for a spring change and a polish here and there. Most Rugers need at least that.
QUOTE]

I see you do have a GP100 and that maybe it as had some trigger work. I agree that it is sort of stock. A nice trigger can make a big difference when trying to shoot small groups.

Tim

[NSB]

It is unrealistic to "expect" the GP100 to shoot an inch at 25yds right out of the box. Some may and most may not regardless of the shooters ability. I've owned some guns that will and some that will not shoot that well. Most of the ones the could weren't stock guns. It would be better to start the conversation with expectations based on the reality of what the average stock GP100 is capable of and not defer to an exception. I'm sure that they are an accurate gun and may be under two inches in most cases, but I'd be very skeptical about stating that one inch is realistic for most of them. FYI, I've shot and owned a lot of stock guns and custom built guns. I've shot competition for over forty years and have done very, very well at it. In that time I've probably owned over a dozen 357mag handguns, two of which were built for me by Bill Davis. Some would shoot five shot cloverleafs with boring regularity but most stock ones weren't quite that good. Anyone who has a stock gun that will shoot five shot cloverleafs at 25yds is lucky to have gotten what I'd consider an exceptional gun.

[JSH]

Man, I think folks are getting cabin fever from the heat? I must be fortunate with my new GP100 3" 38 special. Had some odds and ends of bullseye ammo that I had left over. It is a 1" gun at 25 yards. I have had such good luck with the GPs I am down to two modern SW revolters. Have for the most part moved to Ruger wheel guns.
IMHO if a pistol won't do 1" at 25 off the bags for me or anyone else it is going to get fixed or sent down the road. I still want to know "why" my revolver won't shoot and do most everything I can to make it shoot.
Shooting for groups is not any easy chore. Take plenty of notes on Everything, it will save a lot of grief in the long run.

I have had me best and easiest results with the 357 Rugers with a 160+ to 180. As mentioned above size does matter.
Buddy of mine has a SW 38 he bought for bullseye. It just would not shoot. Did some measuring and the cylinder chambers are on the large side but within specs according to SW. He now neck sizes his brass for that particular rig and it is a darn good shooter.

[williamwaco]

Personal observations:

1) When I say "groups" for revolvers I mean the average of at least four or five six shot groups. - (24 to 30 rounds)

For autos or single shots, I mean the average of four or five - five shot groups - (20 to 25 rounds.)

If you shoot enough, almost any old gun will eventually make a cloverleaf.
One small group, even if it is the first of the day, means nothing.

I find that with high quality revolvers, Smith, Ruger, Colt in the .38 special / .357 magnum from a sandbag rest at 25 yards with factory sights, the best I expect is two to three inches. With a scope, that is one to two inches. I am not saying that other revolvers are less accurate, I have just never owned one. ( Except a couple of Charter Arms Bulldogs, and we will not discuss those. )

I also find that .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 ACP are significantly more accurate then the .38/.357 and I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHY!

[Tim357]

The Alliant 6 gr Unique load has been in the Speer manuals since about #10. It was developed with the Speer swaged 158SWC. their reasoning was it gave the best accuracy without leading in their test gun. Alliant freebie manuals from the 1990's showed 6.8 Unique as max with lead 158 SWC, and 7.8 Unique with jacketed bullets of 158 gr.