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Thread: A pair of Danish Rolling Block sporters

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy wellfedirishman's Avatar
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    Talking A pair of Danish Rolling Block sporters

    Recently I had the fortune to come across a couple of Danish Rolling block sporters on an auction site for pretty reasonable prices. They both had some issues, but with a bit of TLC I think they will shoot just great.

    The first is a Danish model 1867 long rifle converted to 45/70, manufactured in 1888. Range report here:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...erted-to-45-70

    This is how it looked when I received it - boogered up non-original rear sight:


    It shot pretty well at 25 yards though, the poor sight notwithstanding.

    I removed the sight and mounted a tang vernier instead, which made a ton of difference. It is mounted with a clear epoxy so looks like a very clean installation, without drilling/tapping the underlying metal. Removable with some heat if ever required.

    The new vernier sight is shown on the lower rifle below, along with the carbine as the upper rifle:


    The carbine is the more recent addition, it is a Danish model 1867 manufactured in 1874. At some point it was converted to 45/70 and the barrel cut down to about 21 inches. Given the barrel starts at the rear of the rolling block action, the rifle looks quite short overall. The bore is good but the original factory sights were crudely modified to have a 'V' on the back, which is not correctly aligned in height with the front original sight, and the top of the slight ladder was chopped off for some unknown reason. Currently it shoots way high (about 18 inches at 25 yards) with these sights.

    Here are the rifles side-by side as a comparison:








    The shorter carbine is actually a very pleasant size and functions great. The muzzle is a bit off-round due to the bad barrel-chop job, but that can be cleaned up to make a new correct crown.

    Shooting report only at 25 yds carbine / 50 yards rifle since I spent much of the day plugging shotgun clays on the berm with the long rifle.

    Carbine @ 25 yards, note the point of aim was below the target shown. I am not sure if the wide group was due to the poor sights or the bad muzzle or a combination. It should (in theory) like the same ammo as the long Dane.




    Long rifle at 50 yards, point of aim as dead center. The lower shots were due to walking up the vernier scale to get to point of aim. It shouts about an inch group, maybe better (there are 3 shots in the lower hole circled), and hits shotgun clays very well at 50 yards.



    I think the carbine is either going to get a much taller front sight or may also have a tang sight mounted. It will make a very nice antique handi-rifle equivalent when done.

    Overall these are very fun guns to shoot, I will spend some time working up a load for them.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Danish Rolling Block-top.jpg  

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Nice pair of old RBs. I have one of the Swedes in 8X58RD with a tang sight on it. shoots very well and mild recoil with the Lyman 160gr Loverin boolit and 12grs of Unique.

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Hello Mr. wellfedirishman,
    just one note. In my opinion your long Danish M1867 rifle was made rather in 1880 year, not 1888 as you wrote. In literature Mr.Layman wrote, that Danish production started from 1870m approx. 2000 pcs. a year. First 40000 pcs. they bought from US, and started numbering from 40001 (roughly). Your rifle number 58xxx matches year 1880 rather than 1888.
    A have two Danish rifles, and marking characters are very little, it is not easy recognize similar ones as 6/8/0.
    Bye Ales.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy wellfedirishman's Avatar
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    Thanks Ales for the info. You are right about the markings, the year is marked in quite small font.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    I have an identical Danish RB made by Tolhus in Danmark. Actually, they are not exactly cal. .45-70 but 11.7x 56R , although the .45-70 will fit, the cases might expand a bit. The barrel has very deep grooves that allows quite a lot of BP fouling and, when kept clean, will shoot very accurately. However, I exclusively shoot BP with it.Swiss No. 4 or Wano PP with 400 gr from a Lee mold or .457 roundball (also Lee molds). Shoot mostly 25 and 50 yards with it and love it to bits.

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
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    I also have two Denmark made rolling blocks in 11.7 x 56R.One musket with bayonet and another musket that was shorten to a 24" carbine.Earshot are you making brass to fit the chamber or using
    45-70 brass? I have made brass from .348 win and .43 Spanish in the past but wonder if I am missing a easier way of obtaining the correct size brass.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy wellfedirishman's Avatar
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    So I replaced the front sight with a dime (mounted to the original) which worked great:





    The V-notch rear sight is now spot-on now at 25 yards with the dime front sight, and adjustable for elevation with the ladder:

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    I use starline .45-70 brass. I only partially size my cases and use about 40gr. Wano PP , filler and .457 roundball. Shoots accurately till 50 meters and reasonably clean.

  9. #9
    Perma-Banned


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    The rolling blocks look great. I have been getting into them myself and now am always looking.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


    williamwaco's Avatar
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    That is just too much fun for one person.

    "THE LUCK 'O THE IRISH"
    First reload: .22 Hornet. 1956.
    More at: http://reloadingtips.com/

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master enfield's Avatar
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    I think you should have used a Danish Krone,

    hey, watch where ya point that thing!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    TheGrimReaper's Avatar
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    Can't beat a 45-70!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    You do not have Danosh rifles in 11,7x56R!!!
    Only 100 were made/converted in 1895 and they were all scrapped.

    @wellfedirishman
    Your carbine is not a carbine but simply a cut down rifle.

    A true carbine has different sights and a way shorter forestock:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1867_karab_b_0350_s-20081219-191816.jpg 
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    https://www.arma-dania.dk/public/tim...hp?editid1=161

    Here is a resume i wrote some time ago to adress the confusion about chamber length:

    Danish Rolling Blocks and chamber length confusion

    The original Danish RB round was 11.4x41.5R rimfire. Load was 52grains in 1867 and changed to 60 grains of BP behind a 385 grain boolit.
    Denmark ordered 20000 rifles from Remington to be delivered within 6 months. That backfired for Remington because Sheffield could not deliver enough barrels.
    The Danes got to make their own RB’s without paying royalty as a result.
    5 production lines was set up and each of them had a master gunsmith which was in charge of quality. Each smith had to manufacture his own set of Go-No Go gauges and have them certified by the factories master controller. This becomes important later!
    All is well and from 1867 to 1878 @78500 RB’s are manufactured.
    In 1884 the Danes start to develop a replacement for the RB and at the same time they start to ponder a way to modernise the RB’s. In 1896 they were officially converted to: Smokeless, centerfire and jacketed bullets.
    And now comes problems in heaps falling on the arsenal, Because of the 5 different Go-No Go tools it is clear that bores range from 11.25mm~.443” to 11.75mm~.463”. You can’t design a standard round with jacketed and smokeless that will work within those ranges with any kind of accuracy and without huge variations in pressure. So a LARGE long throat is devised to size the bullets for the smaller bores.
    That is why some Danes will chamber a 45-90 without problems and why the 11.4x56R thought exists.

    In the development of the final cartridge choices in smokeless was dismal and experiments led to the 56mm cartridge. But that meant grinding down the hammer for chamber access and that was dismissed along with slower reloading of the rifle. Only 100 rifles were ever converted and they can be easily identified by the ground down hammer. Most/all were scrapped so the likelihood of hundreds of them popping up in the US is nill. You have a ”standard” 11.4x51R chamber.

    When conversion was done in 1895 some metallurgic tests were made on barrel steel. It was found that the Sheffield steel barrels used by Remington was as originally specified but not as strong as the German Witten steel used in the Danish made rifles. That means the Remingtons are rated at a max. of 1200bar~17,4kpsi and the Danish ones marked ”Kjøbenhavns Tøihuus” are rated at a max. of 1600bar~23.2kpsi. In short do not use Trapdoor loads even if full length 45-70 (or longer) brass fits your chamber!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check