HATCH
Could be overheating causing the code to glitch.
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Could be overheating causing the code to glitch.
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
I don't believe it is heat related, the board and regulator are running pretty cool. It is spring here now, i was running it mid winter, not cold vs what you get there, above freezing but still cool.
I thought it could have been power related, but i have tried two different power supplies but the same. I have one more to test, dedicated 9v one. It works better when i don't use the display, i don't know if it is the extra power draw or the I2C protocol it uses. It is back lit, so it does use a little more power, so who knows.
You need to do the math. Measure the current draw on all the devices and add them up. Factor in 20% for possible startup surge.
It happens after lead pour. That requires power so you could have a surge. Also heat doesn't always mean ambient temp.
Sorry not much help a it's not my design and I am not familiar with the components
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
You make a good point. I figured that the arduino is running off a power supply so any fluctuations in the mains power from when the solenoid was engaged or released would not be an issue, but it could be. I don't know if 240vac coils have the same effect as a 12vdc one that when you disconnect the power, you get a voltage spike that you take care of with a diode.
As Kayak1's setup is done all with air solenoids, it is the only thing different to my setup.
You are right about the ambient temperature, i was putting my finger on the main IC and the voltage regulator, neither were very hot.
When i had it all hooked up to a different power supply, it was drawing about 100ma, that is with the air solenoid going. It uses a lot less power than i expected actually. I will take true measurements between the power supply and the arduino so it's not measuring the power drain from the solenoid/relays.
ooh, i also had it running without operating the air solenoid as a bench test, so the lead pour solenoid was not running and it did 3,000+ without an issue, the only thing not connected was the 240v solenoid....
I got a couple of design questions.
You are running the micro-computer off of a power supply.
What voltage is the air valve for movement and what is its supply?
You said the lead pour is electric - 240vac - how is this supplied and is there a relay?
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
Just be be different and difficult, i have 3 voltages......
The lead pour is 240v ac
The air solenoid is 24v dc
The main power supply powers 12v dc to the arduino and also to a 12-24v dc converter.
The digital outputs from the arduino go through MOSFETs to switch the 24vdc to the air solenoid for the main arm ram and another to switch a 24v dc relay to switch the 240v ac for the lead pour.
I wanted to keep it all one voltage, but i got the solenoid for free, and the 12-24v dc converter for free, so i worked with it.
I tried running it with a dedicated 9v power supply to power the arduino yesterday, it still failed but not all in the same place. It also decided to entomb my mold in lead when i went inside, i had a nice surprise when i got outside..... 15 minutes with a torch cleaned it up again. Sadly this has happened before....
It may be time to bribe my brother to see if he can mash out some very basic code to get it operating and see if it is a wiring or power issue. If i can get it to run very basically so i know it's not a faulty component somewhere causing all these issues.
OK. Couple of pointers...
You said you had more then one 12v supply correct?
Use a dedicated supply for the arduino. Use a second to convert to 24vdc.
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
For this box, i have only one 12v supply. It is an old power supply from some CISCO gear i pulled apart. I figured it would have more than enough power to run this setup as it doesn't even draw half an amp @ 12v when running the solenoids.
I tried running it off another lab power supply just in case there were issues with the CISCO one.
I have not used a seperate one to do the 12-24v, but i can give that a go. I had a 9v supply i ran the arduino off yesterday just in case that was the issue. As the lab one does 24v, i can even try running it without the 12-24v converter in there, power it direct from the other one.
Hopefully i can find time to do this in the next few days. Get it hooked up with 3 power supplies.
From what I understand from reading your post, you are running the same program as Kayak1.
This would leave only construction and components.
Generally speaking you only want to use step up converters when you have no other option.
They aren't efficient and sometimes don't provide clean steady voltage.
I use industrial grade power supplies for my projects.
They aren't cheap but I don't have to worry about power related issues.
The ones we use at work (I get special pricing on) are Idec PS5R ( http://us.idec.com/Catalog/ProductSe...Power_Supplies)
They offer them in 24v and 12v DC output with 85vac - 265vac input.
On my initial panel I used two 7.5w supplies because thats what I had on hand. On the current panel and the couple I have built since the first one, I am using a single 30w supply.
The only voltage my PLC deals with directly is 24vdc from that power supply.
I work in the DDC field (direct digital controls). I have found that sometimes you run into issues with you use multiple power supplies on the same device as the commons (grounds) aren't always the same.
On you issue, I was thinking as I was typing.
Your setup works fine for a little while then "hiccups". If you can run multiple cycles without any changes then chances are its not the programming.
Run two power supplies.
12v for the computer
24v for the air valve and lead pour relay
Ideally you should look for a two 12v coil relays.
Have the computer switch 12v and keep the other power sources separate.
You have two limit switches. What voltage runs thru them?
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
Even though the step up converter is not very efficient, i thought that as it was just powering a relay and an air solenoid, it shouldn't have mattered. If the power from it is "dirty" it could be an issue i guess. All the grounds are tied together or else the computer does not switch the outputs correctly as they are essentially floating with no relation to each other.
It is handy that you have access to some pretty sweet goodies. Even better that you have some on hand that come in handy for the projects you do.
The thing is, there are days that it works well for 1-200 cycles then fails. Others i turn it on and it does 7, it is totally random. It does not always fail in the same spot. The last run i did it decided to fail by holding the lead pour on, that made a slight mess to say the least....
One of the problems with that is the computer can't directly switch the relays, it has digital outputs/inputs that control MOSFETs that switch the 12 or 24v.
The limit switches run off the digital lines, so they are 5v.
The arduino has its own internal voltage regulator, i wonder how it would go if i made a power supply and used 7812 and a 7824 voltage regulators to get the desired voltages. Pretty sure i have a suitable sized transformer in my junk pile.
Maybe you have a bad PC board
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
I actually bought two, the other one does the same..... I always suspected power was the issue and tried another power supply without success but still had the step up converter in it.
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
Kayak1 and my setup to control the outputs are essentially the same as that but use MOSFETs instead of a transistor. They also have a pull down resistor from the digital pins to ground so they do not float.
OK, I was just passing on what I found.
I would look at the power supplies.
Sorry I can't help you with more but I just don't know the parts.
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
I appreciate your thoughts, it's good having another point of view. You get into one train of thought and you don't see what else there is till someone else adds what they think it could be.
In each test i have done, i have not removed the step up converter, it also is not in Kayak1's design, something i never even considered.
Hopefully i will get time over the weekend to test it again with a few power supply changes.
Thank you for your input, it's always appreciated.
Did you make the power supply changes and did it fix the problem?
I fixed that panel I was building.
Ran into a small issue but it was totally my fault.
I installed a POT for lead control. I glanced at it and it said 250 ohm.
I didn't look close enough to see it was just 250 not 250K.
So when I did a bench test on the lead pour it failed. The time wasn't adjustable at all.
I looked close and found that was the problem. The timing relay uses resistance to adjust the time.
Needless to say the 250 ohm pots went into the trash
Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
The rules are simple to follow.
Glad you got the control box working, missing the K on the end is a simple mistake, i just hope you found it quickly and not sit there tearing your hair out trying to find out what was wrong. I know i have made mistakes like this before, so very easy to do.
I did get to make the change, sadly the power suppy made no change, i think it made things worse. It would run then stop, it even held the lead pour on, trying to cocoon the bullet mold......
Understandably it has just been making me get more frustrated to the point i was thinking i'd just have to start the control box over with something different. I then looked and thought the only thing that i had not messed with were the limit switches. I then had a brain fart to turn the power off to the control box so the lead pour solenoid was not being driven and let it cycle as normal. The arduino and the relays were being powered off the new power supply, the mains power to the control box only powered the lead pour solenoid at this point. So with it off the machine did 85 cycles without issue, i then disconnected one leg of the lead pour solenoid so it was not being powered, i then put power to the control box just in case it was noise or something from the ac wiring. The counter got to 478 cycles before the displays back light went dim for some odd reason and i stopped. So i can assume that could be the arduino power supply being a little warm.
So, it is not fixed, but i think the issue has to be the solenoid creating a power spike that is messing with the arduino. When it was running with the solenoid hooked up it would run as normal then have a short cycle and the display would flicker and the run count would reset. I went around tapping the control box and boards and nothing changed so i could assume it was not loose wiring.
Now, i will need to see if i can work out a way to remove the voltage spikes that i assume the coil is generating messing with the computer. I know DC coils create power spikes that you use a diode to remove. An AC coil is not so easy though, and im not totally sure how to do it.
Hopefully it is the culprit, time to google to see if there is a way to fix it.
Pretty sure i need a snubber, i wonder if it is the relay contacts and if a capacitor across it would be enough. I'll need to give it a try and see what sort of a mess i can make.
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