Time for a New Single Action Revolver

[GMW]

The itch must be scratched and this go round will be a Single Action Revolver. I already have USFA in .44 special so I know what a quality revolver feels like. Is there any first hand knowledge of the quality between the Uberti Cimarron's and the Uberti's imported by Taylors. Ruger is always a option, Buds has a nice Talo Birdshead in .45 acp. I like the traditional firing system of the imports. Colts are out of my price range. Thanks!

[DeanWinchester]

I like Ruger but they often need a little tweaking. If you want as close to perfection as you can get without paying someone like Bowen a hefty sum, Freedom Arms is the only way to go.
They are about as close as you can get to a marriage of perfection and volume production.

[jmort]

All my single actions get action jobs. This is a good source

http://www.longhunt.com/web/index.php?page=side-arms

The more I read about the BFRs the more I want one.

[Lefty Red]

I have been messing around, thinking about getting an Uberti Cattleman. Friend has the 7.5" barrel in 45LC and its a shooter! Just feels right.
Jerry

[DougGuy]

Newer Rugers on the medium frame are great shooters if you like less than full house loads. That Talo birdshead can take +P loads all day, just not the Ruger Only loads of 30k psi pressure. The only thing you need to do to a Ruger is ream the cylinder throats to .4525" and lighten up the trigger return spring by pulling one leg off or swapping in a Wolff 30oz spring, and maybe do an 11° forcing cone on the barrel. If it doesn't have any thread choke in it, and you do just the throats, spring, and forcing cone, it will be an excellent shooter and very fun gun to own and shoot. Nevermind that it is built like a tank and will last generations of your family.

The only tradeoff is the traditional cocking and half cock noises and functions, but you get a LOT better steel, and can carry safely with 6 chambers loaded.

[Dale53]

The best value in the world in a single action firearm is RUGER. Yes, they may need a little tweeking, but then they are good for generations.

I have been an S&W man for nearly my whole life. I have both new ones and old ones. I also have a few Rugers. Both Smith and Ruger have been guilty of producing revolvers with undersize or oversize cylinder throats. Rugers nearly always need some trigger work.

I STRONGLY favor adjustable sights (maybe I am not "normal" but I prefer to hit what I'm aiming at). I have a couple of fixed sighted guns that shoot to the sights with a single, good, load and they have a place in my home. However, in general, it's adjustable sights or be gone...

In the recent past I have put my money where my mouth is and bought a Ruger 50th Anniversary .44 Magnum Black Hawk, a SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible, and a couple of Ruger Flattop .44 Specials. I'll have those until they plant me - they are that good!

I have never been a great admirer of Colt single actions for USING. They have always been over priced IMHO and have often suffered from oversize throats. They are the prettiest handguns out there but I don't buy handguns for "pretty", I buy them to hit something with. YMMV

Freedom Arms revolvers have never appealed to me. They are too dern expensive for me and I never liked their adjustable sight set up. YMMV

Many single actions have terrible fixed sights (not just fixed, but TERRIBLE). An example is the first generation Colts. Rugers fixed sights on the Vaquero and Bisley Vaqueros are excellent and if regulated properly are perfectly usable in the field with a single good load. My Ruger Bisley Vaquero does a fine job. I mentioned I prefer adjustable sights but some Cowboy and Black Powder Cartridge games demand fixed sights. I have won more than my share of matches with the Bisley and it is held in high regard (and that includes score matches, too).

At any rate, that is just my opinion and we all know what that is worth...

Dale53

[DougGuy]

To add to what Dale said, don't for a minute think that because a revolver has fixed sights, it's only good for one single load. Half the fun of owning a fixed sight revolver, is "bringing the boolit to the sights." That is, developing loads that cause the boolit to strike a point of impact that is directly on top of the front sight blade, at a given distance, likely 25yds.

I have a short barreled Vaquero in .45 Colt that I have 7 loads that will hit point of aim with no compensation needed on the sight picture, they all hit the same zero.

When you fire a single action and let the plowhandle roll upward in recoil, this just follows the natural instinct of that style of grip, and it not only affects point of impact, but in many cases, decides point of impact. As the gun recoils upward, the boolit still in the barrel, the velocity or amount of "dwell time" is how you get a load to hit a desired point. If you shoot a fast load, it will hit a lower point of impact because it leaves the muzzle before the gun rolls upward very much. A slower moving boolit spends more "dwell time" in the barrel which allows the gun to rotate upwards farther, and that boolit strikes the target at a higher point of impact. The trick is to develop loads that strike exactly where the sights are pointed, and it's not hard to do at all.

Most likely you will have boolit weights close to each other, you cannot get a 180gr or 200gr boolit to strike the same point of aim as a 260gr or 300gr boolit. You can for example, get a 280gr, and a 300gr, and a 320gr to hit point of aim with varying amounts of powder, and varying types of powder used.

[doc1876]

from everything I've heard and read Cimarron seems to be a step above Taylor. but there again for the same money you can get a good Ruger. do you want historical accuracy, or shooting accuracy?

[bedbugbilly]

I just ordered a Uberti Bisley - 357 with a 4 3/4" barrel. It should be in sometime next week or the week after. I looked at Uberti, Cimmaron, and Taylor site and wondered as well as to what the same revolver would be if purchased from all three and laid side by side. I discussed it with the gun shop I do business with and the salesman (who is knowledgeable and shoots competition - i.e. knows revolvers) said that a person probably couldn't tell the difference. He said the pistols they have been ordering from Uberti have all been very nice - great fit and finish and good, crisp actions to them.

I have a Ruger New Vaquero (as well as other Rugers) and they too are very nice. I have no complaints at all on the NV but I decided to try one of the Ubertis since the '51 Navy I now shoot is an Uberti and is a great pistol - not only fit and finish but function as well and extremely accurate (I've owned many brands of '51 Navies over the years).

The salesman also stated that the Uberti is probably one of the closest reproductions of the Colt that's made. As far as the Bisley goes, the grip frame is the closest in his opinion. They also sell Rugers and so there was no pressure from him to buy the Uberti - that was my decision.

It's like anything else . . . different strokes for different folks. I like historical firearms and have no problem with a SA not having a cross bar and the necessity of carrying on an empty cylinder. The Bisley I purchased cost more than Uberti's 1873 Cattleman, etc. but I wanted the Bisley grip and liked what I saw when comparing the Uberti to what Ruger offers. Again . . . personal preference.

My New Vaquero is a 5 1/2" barrel. It shoots great and is well made. Having said that, when I finally decide to get a 45 or similar (larger than the 38s I now shoot) I know that I will probably go with one of the Ubertis . . . "just 'cause".

What it boils down to is that like any handgun purchase . . . look at them and decide on what "you" like . . . not what somebody else likes. You are the one who will be using it and if you are waivering on something . . . go with what you like and will enjoy. Rugers have proven themselves . . Ubertis have proven themselves . . . Piettas have proven themselves . . . go with what you want. Good luck!

[Groo]

Groo here
As long as the boolet hits at or above the front sight I have had no problems with any fixed sight.
Some time ago I had Andy Horvath make me a pair of New Vaquero's up in 41mag.
The 3 3/4 in is a fixed sight with a dovetailed front sight [ like the one FA sells]
Hitting is just not a problem.

[Markbo]

If you want an SAA clone and not a ruger because face it - they do NOT look like an SAA! - the Uberti/Cimmarons are very good options. I also have Beretta & Taurus copies and much prefer my Cimmarons. Closer copies (the Taurus has awful fake CCH) to the original, well made and accurate.

[Piedmont]

I got my first Ruger single action in 1977, a .45 Blackhawk convertible, and have never been without one since. Have several now. Colts were always too expensive for me but they have been tempting me greatly this past year. One of the things that has stopped me is that Colt, like Ruger, seems to have trouble getting cylinder throat dimensions correct.

Last week I happened to be in a gun store to see if I could handle a Steyr L9 A1. They didn't have one. I wandered around and got to the single action revolver case. Handled all sorts of stuff including a New Vaquero .45 Colt, a .44 Ruger Flattop and a bunch of Ubertis. I left with a Uberti El Patron in .45 Colt and have fallen in love with the thing. It just plain feels better in the hand (balance and ergonomics) than any of the Rugers. It looks better too. I don't know what the throats measure but .454" bullets won't go through.

I would recommend a Uberti and this is from a long time Ruger fan.

[9.3X62AL]

I have had very good service from 2 examples of the Uberti Cattleman--both had/have 4-3/4" barrels, one was 45 Colt, the more recent is in 44-40 WCF. Neither is the equal of my 1906-vintage Colt Bisley SAA in 32-20 (same 4-3/4" barrel), but for the price paid ($430 OTD 18 months ago) I am quite satisfied with their quality. Can't complain about the fixed sights, either--run a 200 grain SAECO #446 at 900 FPS from the 44-40, and they hit right where the sights print. The 45 Colt did similarly with both #454424 and #454190 at 875-900 FPS, too.

[Markbo]

3 loads,2 guns and all shoot to point of aim? Id never get rid of them!

[35 Whelen]

I currently own seven Uberti's (a pair of .357's, a 44 Colt, three .44 Specials and a 45 Colt); some are "Uberti's" others "Cimarron's" but they're all one and the same. I absolutely love all of them. So, so simple and easy to polish and slick up. I can change springs, lighten the trigger and just generally have a Uberti slicked up in an hour or less. the only fault I can find in them are the tiny V groove rear sights and the tapered front sight. But that's a fairly easy fix. A competent machinist can mill a 1/8" groove out of the V in just a few minutes and replacing the front sight is not terribly difficult either:



I don't find fixed sights to be a handicap in the least and really personally think adjustable sights on a working handgun that's subject to knocks and bumps, about as useless as tits on a boar hog. I used a fixed sighted Uberti on three deer last year, no problem.

I strive for two loads in my .44's and .45's; a practice and general carry load that consists of a 260 gr. SWC in the .44 or a 285 gr. SWC in the .45 running around 825 - 850 fps and then a hunting load that runs the same bullet around 1000 - 1050 fps. I haven't had the Uberti .45 long enough to work up many loads for it.

I own a couple of Rugers too; a NM Flat Top Blackhawk .44 Special and a NM Vaquero 45 Colt. Either be handy with tools or be prepared to send them off if you want them slick and reasonably accurate.

35W

[sixshot]

The fixed sight guns drive me nuts but that doesn't mean they won't shoot, I've shot several that were lights out accurate but I could never hunt with one unless it was from a tree stand, etc. On my Rugers I have my son do a trigger job....no, not taking one spring off, that will lighten a trigger but it can not correct a bad trigger. Then we narrow the front sight to 1/10", they come .125" & thats just too thick for old eyes. They I paint it white, let it dry & then paint it orange or red, you really need the white on there first. The newer Rugers are very accurate right out of the box.

Dick

[hanover67]

I agree with the advice to buy what you like. I have 3 single actions, all .44 Specials, a Colt 7 1/2" New Frontier, a USFA 4 3/4" Single Action, and a Uberti/Cimarron 4 3/4" Bisley. The Colt has adjustable sights which I like. I have small hands so fixed-sight revolvers tend to shoot left unless I make a conscious effort to adjust my grip around under the right grip. That solves the problem with the Bisley and a S & W Model 10 I have, but the USFA still shoots about 8 to 10" left at 15 yards. I just shift my point of aim. I wish I could send it back to the factory to get the front sight regulated, but there is no factory anymore.

[bedbugbilly]

hanover67 - I also have "smaller hands" so can relate to what you are saying. I've shot SA C & B revolvers for 50 years and prefer the "51 Navies - have owned a number of different brands and currently have a Uberti which I love. For me, I'm more comfortable with "fixed" sights of the SA revolver. I find it's like any gun - you get familiar to how it shoots and then do a little "Kentucky Windage". I have two Smiths with adjustable sights and still find myself going to my 38spl M & P revolver every time.

I hated the stock plastic grips on my Ruger New Vaquero - mainly the sharp plastic checkering - like holding on to a rasp. I knocked the points of the checkering off with steel wool which helped but then ran across a set of Eagle "gun fighter" wood grips. For my hand size - I really like them. Very comfortable and I find it helps in coming back on target for a second shot.

I got a call yesterday that my Uberti Bisley was in so I'm going down to pick it up today. Needless to say, I'm excited!

The problem is . . . if a person likes SAA style revolvers . . . there are just too many of them out there and you want to kind of try 'em all!

[44man]

Most accurate revolvers ever made are the BFR's and I long for the .44 Shorty even though I like longer barrels for hunting. Second is a Ruger Hunter or SRH. Both super accurate.
I don't like the new, smaller Vaquero, Good for CA though.
I still love the feel of an old Colt and the looks, nothing better. But need to be practical for hunting.

[Markbo]

Hanover FWIW any gunsmith can fix your sight regulation. First find THE load you are going to shoot most. Then pick a range you wanted regulated at and shoot a 5 shot group. Provide all of that to the smith and they can adjust the sights. But you have to provide the target and ammo because he might shoot it differently. I happen to be huge fan of Alan Harton but any smith that works on single actions should be able to do it