I have a question about blackpowder substitutes, cleaning, and so on

[C. Latch]

IN Anchorage, Ak area, Hogdon Triple Seven is readily available from multiple sources. The same can't be said for Black Powder-- Only one store in Anchorage carries it! Mind you, I'm not a benchrest shooter. THat said Triple Seven has all the accuracy & reliability I need. It's easy to obtain, and works like a charm with easy clean up..... What more can you ask for? (I've never even SEEN "Blackthorn 209" in Alaska)

I have some T7 pellets that I used in dad's rifle before BH209 came out, but I can't say that I really know much about it....I loaded it, shot it, sighted it in, killed a couple of deer with it, then got the Savage and since then he has hauled it to the woods 1-2 times per year, but has never fired it at an animal that I can remember.

Blackpowder is hard to get here, too. Last time I wanted a pound of it, I had to drive to Memphis, TN (lived near there at the time) and pay a high price for it. Sure, you can order it online, but shipping costs make that a no-go. Most of the stores here sell pyrodex pellets, but I've seen the corroded legacy of pyrodex enough that I want nothing to do with it.

This may be one of those cases where I end up having to just shoot whatever I can find, not necessarily what I *want*.

[NSB]

johnson1942 said it all. Get some Blackhorn209. You can shoot all day without cleaning your gun. Superb accuracy.

[C. Latch]

johnson1942 said it all. Get some Blackhorn209. You can shoot all day without cleaning your gun. Superb accuracy.

Blackhorn 209 will not ignote with the ignition system that I have in the guns in question, and while I recognize the merits of adapters that allow you to fire modern primers in caplocks - I think I was even one of the people who steered johnson1942 to a place to buy said adapters some time ago - I do not desire to change the ignition on these guns, for reasons that are outside the scope of this thread, therefore, Blackhorn 209 is a no-go for the purposes of this thread.

[n.h.schmidt]

American pioneer powder or shockys gold will do. They work with percussion caps. Non corrosive and the barrel stays clean. Downside ,accuracy seems lacking and seems to have lower power grain for grain. Lots of white smoke and no stink.
n.h.schmidt

[mooman76]

One thing you might try. TC Nature lube 1000 or Wonder lube 1000. They claimed using it would drastically cut down on corrosion. I put it to the test. I wiped the bore with it and used it for a lube and used Pyrodex. I left it uncleaned for a week and found no signs of corrosion. I might add I checked it every day at least once and also wiped the outside of the gun with it especially around the lock and nipple area where powder residue builds up. If you try it I would suggest checking it every day to make sure you are ok. I also wouldn't use this for long term storage and use a good gun oil for long term storage.

[C. Latch]

As an update, yesterday I found someone with some JSG and bought a pound of the FFg.

Nobody around here has black powder, that I have found, though my search did lead me to a store with a shelf full of smokeless powders that I might have to go back and raid at some point.

[doc1876]

I have heard from smiths, that the substitutes are more corrosive than regular black.........I personally do not know, that is just what I have heard from guys that have gotten guns in for cleaning due to non cleaning.

[triggerhappy243]

I have been using pyrodex since 1981. it's all about housekeeping. Be anal about cleaning that barrel. clean it twice if you have to. if your residential water has a high sulphur or salt content, consider boiling it first.

By the way, my ex-wife used to b*&@# about me cleaning my smoke pole too. she lives in a mobile home now.

[C. Latch]

I shot a few rounds with the JSG this afternoon. No problems thus far; recoil seemed a bit light compared to regular BP, but it cleaned up super easy (hot water, and I used soap out of habit, but it didn't take 3 minutes to get it clean). I suppose it'll do to hunt with.

[OverMax]

Most sub powders seen in the market place today have been around for at least 10 yrs. To answer your question.
No substitute powders are completely corrosion-free. Not even BH209.
Again where you reside (humidity) can make a difference in how soon a cleaning is required.

As far as which sub powders are moisture-attracting powders. Frankly I wouldn't know.

[Toymaker]

Just yesterday, after a morning muzzle loader match, the range is open to all members. A young man came in with an in-line to sight in for the coming deer season. He was having a TERRIBLE time pushing his bullet down the bore. As RO I checked with him for possible safety issues and to offer assistance if needed. He was shooting [unknown brand] pellets and a bullet with which he'd had good success last year. Upon questioning it turns out he'd cleaned the bore with the recommended product, but maybe not as well as he should. Then he wiped the bore with the recommended protection product before putting it away. The bore had corroded. This wasn't the first time I've seen this situation. "It seems to me most strange" .... with these in-lines it's so easy to stick the muzzle in a container of hot soapy water and flush the bore a couple of times with a patched jag (maybe even with a water change), then pour hot water in the breech and out the muzzle; spray with WD40 to displace the water, dry patch and coat with a good protectorate (I like RIG for long term). 30 minutes, max. And easy to do outside.

[mooman76]

Many of the inline shooters get them to hunt with, not to take up the sport of shooting BP guns. My guess is they don't take the time to learn about them and thus don't know proper care for them or realize how critical a good cleaning is for them. It is real common for them to put them away and forget to clean them at all. When I first started I didn't clean with water, I just cleaned as I would a normal smokeless gun but I did know how important it was to clean good so fortunately I never had a problem.

[fouronesix]

Very true about taking up MLs to "game" the system with an earlier, more desirable season with little desire to really understand much about shooting or maintenance. Been going on since the early-mid 70s. Lots of sewer pipe bores in MLs out there.

Specific brand by brand differences I don't know about but generally: Most all subs are harder to ignite than blackpowder. Many are more hygroscopic than blackpowder. Some subs have a very short useful shelf life because of being hygroscopic (unless you enjoy opening the bottle and having to break up rock hard lumps). Blackpowder has a useful shelf life of a few hundred years. Many are corrosive and some more so than blackpowder. Most all are more expensive than blackpowder. But hey, what's not to like about them!

[stephen m weiss]

I dont have any blackpowder, and hate that my white hotz are $.50 a pop. They are also dirty as heck and I dont like the cleaning. I can cast shots for my ML 50cal for about $.06 I i am going to try 23 gr of Alliant Reloader 50 in a toilet paper wrap with a limited engagement ramrod. I am leaving 1.5" in the bore for the powder when teh powder only takes up .5". The powder is shoved back against the flash hole by the toilet paper which is wrapped like a hershey kiss and the wound part sticks toward teh bullet. Even if the bullet was loose, it could not slide back under gravity or shock by the stiffness of the ropey tp wrap.

Based on my tests with partially filled rifle shells, I should get reliable ignition and the pressure should be lower than a normal rifle case by the volume ratio .5/1.5 so down to black powder levels. The energy I am using is about the equivalent of 1.5 white hotz, so less than the 2 or 3 white hotz allowed. The bullet should get around 1250fps.

I want a last sanity check before putting my gun on the line. I guess I will do the trigger string trick for the first shot but cant see how it could explode. Does anyone see a potential problem?

smw

[C. Latch]

I can't say that what you propose is safe.

[johnson1942]

to stephen m weiss, i really dont understand all what your saying but if you are planing on useing smokelss powder in a muzzleloader, do you have good medical insurance with disabled benifits?my son has a custom in line labled as to use smokeless powder but no way. even with guns built for it it is risky. he uses blackhorn 209 and it gives him what any of the smokelss powders would and it is safer than smokless. you can sit at your kitchen table and do math after math to come up with a what seems to be a safe smokeless safe load however i know you are forgeting some variable that you were not aware of. your not only risking your self but if the range your shooting at is busy your risking them also. knowingly doing that could be classified as reckless endangerment or at the very worst, man slaughter.

[dondiego]

Stephen - Does the barrel of your rifle say "Black powder only"?

[mooman76]

I don't understand why you would take a chance. There are allot of BP subs out there. One of them should work for you. If you want to shoot smokeless, get a smokeless gun to shoot them out of. Even if it does work the first time you try it , it may stress the metal and suddenly burst some future date when you aren't expecting it.

[triggerhappy243]

Smokeless in a labeled black powder rifle?that is stupid... Sorry but it is.

[triggerhappy243]

nothing has been said as to what kind of muzzleloader steven is using. I can tell you the steel used in caplock rifles is softer compared to the steel used in center fire rifles of the same caliber. I see the making of a live hand grenade. do us all a great service........... forget all about using smokeless powder in your muzzleloader.