Need advice on Coach Guns

[Jeff82]

For reasons that are not really clear to me, I've developed an interest in adding a coach gun to my line-up. Unfortunately, I'm not much of an expert on shotguns, and have only had very limited experience with them. I'd envision using one to shoot slugs at 25 and 50 yards, since the range I shoot at doesn't allow you to shoot shot (not sure what the point would be to that anyway). However, down the road, I might possibly try trap with it as well.

So, here's where I need the advice:


1- I know side-by-side guns have more quirks that single barrels, and that bead-sighted smooth bore guns are not as accurate with slugs than slug guns, but could I get reasonable accuracy and a generally good time shooting as described above?

2- I've been looking at the Stoeger coach gun, which is pretty inexpensive. But, there seems to be a wide spread in price among coach guns (I guess this may reflect the effort it takes to get both barrels to shoot to the point of aim), but can anyone make a recommendation on what a good choice would be?

Thanks,

--Jeff

[ksfowler166]

I'd envision using one to shoot slugs at 25 and 50 yards, since the range I shoot at doesn't allow you to shoot shot (not sure what the point would be to that anyway).

The point would be to pattern birdshot loads as well as buckshot.

However, down the road, I might possibly try trap with it as well.

I am guessing that this will be non competitive shooting at a trap range. If so there are a few conditions that should be meet. First don't shoot many shells. This has more to due with developing a flinch and other problems associated with recoil. Secondly use the smallest shot weight charge at the slowest velocity you can for the above reasons since that gun will kick. Another problem with coach guns is that they are small and many people don't like that and they muscle the gun which causes problems as well as the short sighting plane. Thirdly don't expect to shoot well that gun is the exact opposite of what you would want but it will be fine for just for fun shooting.

1- I know side-by-side guns have more quirks that single barrels, and that bead-sighted smooth bore guns are not as accurate with slugs than slug guns, but could I get reasonable accuracy and a generally good time shooting as described above?

Actually SxS guns don't have anymore or any less "quirks" than single barreled gun since regulation can be a problem with both. Smooth bore bead sighted guns are capable of more than enough accuracy at 50 yards to do anything you would use a shotgun slug for. I would highly recommend Brenneke's slugs with a cylinder choked gun.

2- I've been looking at the Stoeger coach gun, which is pretty inexpensive. But, there seems to be a wide spread in price among coach guns (I guess this may reflect the effort it takes to get both barrels to shoot to the point of aim), but can anyone make a recommendation on what a good choice would be?

While I have never shot a Stoeger coach gun I have handled them before. From my experience they are obscenely heavy for what they are I am guessing in excess of 7lbs and I just don't like the way they felt. Actually regulation (ie. both barrels shooting to the point of aim) is not really a problem with most guns regardless of price with most problems being the result of ammunition of the chokes. What causes the price difference between SxS shotguns is quality, reliability, and craftsmanship particularly by hand. I personally would not by a Stoeger shotgun since I have had problems with them and other low end semi autos before. Though I wouldn't buy a coach gun to begin with since I only buy shotguns that I would hunt with which I practice with on the clay sports.

[Garyshome]

I don't have any use for one, But I want one real bad! Massive destruction!!!!!!

[SGTM9]

I own a Stoeger Coach gun 12 ga. Stainless finish wood furniture. I had to do a little work on the stock where the wood meets the reciever. It was just a tad long. It is fun to shoot if you don't run too hot of a shell in it. Love it for pheasant.

[dualsport]

I bought one of the Chinese made exposed hammer doubles in 12 gauge. It's hellforstout. The fit and finish is ok, especially for the price. I believe it's a copy of an old Remington design from the stage coach days. I was thinking house gun when I got it but have gone back to a 12 ga. pump for that job. Not real romantic but definitely a better tool for when TSHTF. I found it's a good idea to test fire my double with the ammo I may use for HD as it can get sticky extraction wise. It'll shoot 3" magnums but it's brutal and may not extract the fired shell so well.

[Jeff82]

I also forgot to ask: 20 or 12 gauge? I'd probably want to use reduced loads from the 12-gauge.

[shootinfox2]

I have two stoegers and a baikal I use for cowboy action shooting. Both have had action work done on them. Google Marauder's home page. Lot of info that you can do yourself. Both work fine.The Baikal is a little wider between chambers than the Stoeger, so fast reloads need practice.
"Four shots under 5 seconds" Look at the SASSWIRE website for more info on both guns.

[Markbo]

Like any type of gun there are huge price ranges, quality and quirks. Do you want stainless or blued? Color case hardened or plain? Hammers or not? I went through this several years ago and decided if I am going to have ONE Coach gun it is going to be a by Gosh Coach Gun.. meaning blued, CCH and hammers. I ended up choosing an EMF Hartford. About 1/2 the price of an honest to goodness Greener but it is one of the better shotguns I own. I have absolutely nothing negative to say about it. A couple of pics:




In that second photo you'll notice two things. One is the safety. I don't like it but I don't use it. I don't want to remove it because the it would leave a mark where it was. Better to just ignore it. The other is the angle of the hammers...tilted in a bit to be able to cock both with one thumb at the same time if you had a mind to.

You might have noticed too it has twin triggers. Very easy to get used to. And that CCH! Probably the prettiest CCH on any gun I own. This particular gun did not come with choke tubes, but it's a Coach Gun... not a skeet gun. I absolutely love it.

[junkbug]

If you want to shoot clay sports with one of these, just for fun, try skeet. You will have half a chance with the cylinder bores. For trap, those cylinder bores will be almost useless, even at the 16 yard line.

[Jeff82]

Markbo,

That's a truly awesome gun.

[Spruce]

I have been looking for one also, and now I know what to look for. Beautiful gun , thanks for posting pics.

[Bullwolf]

I missed my old side by side, so I bought a Stoeger 12 gauge coach gun, blued with dual selective barrel triggers. Mine is the less expensive standard feature model with non removable fixed internal chokes. (modified and improved)


Pro's: it was inexpensive and very affordable.

Con's: I kind of got what I paid for.

The finish on the gun was quite rough, internally and externally. It's also the first gun to rust in my safe if the dehumidifier gets unplugged, even while inside a silicone gun sock and after an external application of either Eezox or RIG grease. While I have not seen pitting or any damage to the blueing, I am constantly wiping rust off the outside and inside of the barrels. I really don't like the steel that was used to make this gun. Additionally ALL of the nickel plated coach guns that I saw and handled while still new had the nickel plating starting to flaking off. This didn't exactly leave me with a confident warm fuzzy feeling. I have had the shotgun for a few years now though, and despite all the rusty orange wipe down patches, it still looks pretty good overall.

I had to polish a few internal parts myself by hand, or I could not even get the shotgun to break open. If memory serves, the extractor scraped and bound up the gun so bad that I often could not break open the gun even over my knee until after a vigorous massage and polish of the offending piece had been performed.

I choose to also polish the very rough machined chambers (optional) so that shells came out without my having to pull them out, but that was just me.

Of minor nuisance was the European style safety that gets engaged every time you open the shotgun. The safety also takes a good amount of force to engage when you open the gun. I disabled the automatic engage break open safety feature by shortening the rod. (Easily looked up how to do online) Doing this had the added benefit of making the gun require much less effort to open and close, as it wasn't simultaneously trying to push and engage the safety while doing so.

Please don't make a big fuss about the fact that I modified a safety feature on my coach gun. I can still engage the safety manually when I choose, and this shotgun is more of a hunting/clay breaking toy than anything resembling a self defense shotgun for me. This change made a huge difference for me in my overall usability. I strongly dislike it when the safety is engaged automatically on the shotgun while I'm breaking clays, or right when I go to shoot a bird.

I realize this all may sound somewhat negative, but I really do like the gun, and honestly it's a very fun gun to shoot. I appreciate the gun for the price point that I paid for it. Recoil was kind of unpleasant at first, but I moderated it quite a bit with the application of a slip on recoil pad. I also filled up the hollow stock bolt hole recess with a tube filled with bird shot. The extra weight from the added lead shot, and the slip on recoil pad both help soak up the felt recoil, and help make the shotgun more enjoyable to shoot for more than a handful of shells. The added weight did not improve the guns handling any though.

I have found that inexperienced shooters, and women really seem to like the simplicity of the double barrel shotguns break open design. This gun is often a big hit with other shooters. Still, I don't think I would recommend a Stoeger coach gun to a friend unless they were on a really tight budget.

The design works OK, but doesn't seem like it would lend itself to much longevity or durability if the gun got put to a lot of use. The components seem to be cheaply made and of low quality. Some of them are pretty rough. Alternatively, the shotgun may last a long time if it's only shot infrequently. I have heard mixed reviews about them from the Cowboy Action guys. Some liked them, and some hated them. Most who actually shoot them a lot seem to do some work to the gun.

I've enjoyed mine despite it's foibles, but if I planned on shooting a coach gun more often, I think I would have bought a higher end model from a quality manufacturer instead of the Stoeger.



- Bullwolf

[Jeff82]

Bullwolf,

Sounds like I should think about going the route Markbo did and consider a higher quality (price) firearm.

--Jeff

[Markbo]

FWIW I have had none of the issues or complaints Bull speaks of

[BattleRife]

I bought a Stoeger-IGA (made in Brazil) Coachgun in 12 gauge in the mid 90's, and used it quite happily until 2002, when I considered it near the end of its life and gave it to my brother who wanted a shotgun to pack in bear country and expected to shoot it almost never. The gun digested about 13,000 rounds in those few years, shooting lots of skeet, moderate amounts of sporting clays and some trap. The gun was choked IC & modified and I never felt that was a problem on the trap fields until I got back to around the 23 yard line. My scores at trap and skeet were typically around 22-23 and I was routinely a high 60s - low 70s shooter at sporting clays. Could I have scored higher with something with longer barrels? Maybe, but I felt I was doing alright. I killed the occasional duck and goose using steel loads without issue.

I think they are great guns for what they are. Yes, they are a little heavier than they need to be but that's probably a good thing if you are going to shoot it for fun. The biggest problem I had with it was some people hated being next to me on the trap field or in the blind, as the muzzle blast could really ring a guy's bell. The longest lasting effect is that if you take the time to develop a swing that lets you hit with a coachgun, you may also develop, as I did, a pretty distinct contempt for all those super-tubed shotguns people insist on lugging around. I consider any shotgun barrel longer than 24 inches less than ideal, and anything over 28 downright foolish.

I will add that after giving away that first one I bought a second one around 2004, and the quality wasn't the same. The recoil pad was very poorly fitted and the whereas the chamber to barrel joint on the first one had been seamless and invisible, this one had an ugly line of knurling there that still couldn't hide the ill-fitted brazing line. I haven't examined a contemporary production one in years.

[azrednek]

I had one of the Chinese SXS in 12ga. I've seen it sold under various names and importers. I was totally impressed by the quality of the metal to wood fit and the beautiful walnut butt stock. What I didn't like was the trigger safety unlike the Russian or Brazilian models that have a firing pin blocking safety. I simply didn't feel it safe. Thumb slipping off hammers or dropping or bumping firing pin could possibly cause an unintended discharge.

[Bullwolf]

I bought a Stoeger-IGA (made in Brazil) Coachgun in 12 gauge in the mid 90's, and used it quite happily until 2002, when I considered it near the end of its life and gave it to my brother who wanted a shotgun to pack in bear country and expected to shoot it almost never. The gun digested about 13,000 rounds in those few years, shooting lots of skeet, moderate amounts of sporting clays and some trap. T

I will add that after giving away that first one I bought a second one around 2004, and the quality wasn't the same. I haven't examined a contemporary production one in years.

I'm pleased to hear that a 90's Stoeger held up for around 13,000 rounds and more.

My Stoeger has likely had less than 2 cases (250 round flats) put through it. I typically drag it along with me when I'm shooting my over and under. I tend to shoot my over and under a LOT more, and only shoot the Stoeger for fun.

Others often want to shoot the Stoeger a time or two, just so they can experience what shooting a cowboy coach gun feels like. It will break a clay pigeon decent enough, as long as you get on it promptly. If you let them get a ways out there, it's not quite as effective. As others have said coach guns are not the best for quick sweeps, but that's not really the shotguns intended purpose anyhow..

For what it's worth, I was shopping for, and purchased my Stoeger 12 gauge coach gun around 2010-2011. I had not looked at Stoeger shotguns before, or since so I can't really speak about the previous or current quality control. I can only relate my experience with the ones I looked at, and the single example I purchased in that time frame.


- Bullwolf

[Firebricker]

I have a Stoeger 12ga hammerless and have been happy with it. I think I paid $325 or $350 used very good condition four or five years ago. I have not shot a lot of slugs through it so do not really have anything to add there. Now as far as messing around shooting clays it does better than I thought. It has 20" barrels which is short but they are choked. I am thinking they are IC/Mod but would have to look it has been awhile. It is not what I would take for a serious day at the trap or sporting clays range but is plenty for messing around and as said above skeet is whole different game and it will be better suited to that regulation trap. FB

[blackpowder man]

I have a EMF 1878 Hartford with hammers. I think Norinco made it. It has hammers, which I much prefer, and is pretty heavy which cuts recoil from the gourgeous steel buttplate. Chambers are polished and it came with lighter hammer springs for ome handed cocking of both hammers at one time. It does great with shot and the lyman slug over unique. I might get bashed, but I don't like the stoegers. They are pretty to look at but rough inside, soft steel, and not really one that people repair. I had a neighbor that bought one new in 20 guage and one barrel wouldn't fire. I told him to try a different brand shell because the remingtons he had have fairly hard primers compared to federals. He called(stoeger) their customer service and they told him the same thing. It didn't help, so I took it by my buddy's who is a professional gunsmith and does alot of shotgun work and he wouldn't touch it.

[azrednek]

I know I'm jumping a bit off of track. Not exactly a coach gun but could be easily made into a hammerless version. I have an early 70's Stevens Model 311 that has been subjected to much use, abuse and neglect but it has never failed me. I used it for about 25 years for Dove hunting, a few times Duck hunting and have rolled a few Yotes with 3 inch buckshot.

I also loaned it once while afield. I was hunting near a prison and guards were looking for an escapee. One if the unarmed guards asked if he could barrow it after I was politely asked to leave the area. I loaned him the shotgun, gave him 4, 3 inch mag buckshot loads and he returned to my front door about 5 or 6 hours later.


About 10 years ago I had to re-finish the wood and replace the dried out recoil pad. I now use a Franchi O/U for Dove hunting but my old 311 goes along on every shot gunning trip as a back-up. More often than not, a family member or friend will use it in one of our numerous Dove hunting get-togethers.

I have no idea of the round count but I'm sure it is in the thousands and it has never needed as much as a screw or pin.