223 HP cast + PC - mold exist for that?

[OnceFired]

Hi all

I am very near to going shooting with my first 9mm cast reloads. So I am planning for my next caliber which will be 223/5.56

I have been following all the threads I can find about PC, and have my airsoft BB's, Cool Whip container, and 3 powder colors from Harbor Freight. My convection oven is waiting patiently for me to get off my butt. I also have my 223 dies from Lee, and about 800 lbs of 5.56 Lake City brass cleaned, but not trimmed, primer crimps not removed yet, etc. I don't have the trimming tools yet, but they're on the list too.

So, the only thing I really don't have yet that I do *want* to get is a mold for 223 HP that I can PC with. The tools are easy to find - but does such an animal as the 223 HP PC-able mold exist? If so, ideally I'd like another 6-cavity like my 9mm, or possibly more cavities if a custom mold is the only way to go.

This is for my newly built AR-15.

Would love suggestions. I do intend on slugging the bore for my AR. I'll be doing that along with my 9mm shortly.

OF

[TheCelt]

I bought a 225415DC mold from Lyman and sent it to Eric for the HP mod and to have the drive bands opened up to .226 (it cast .220 with #2 alloy as received). Works very well. http://www.hollowpointmold.com/inset-bar-conversions/

[Larry Gibson]

If you expect any kind of higher velocity out of your AR with a faster (7, 8 or 9") twist your will also heat treat the bullets in addition to PCing them. That makes them harder the woodpecker lips and negates the qualities of a HP bullet. Suggest a multiple cavity mould of solid design instead as the HP will be a moot point for what you want to accomplish. 2400 - 2600+ fps is possible with "blasting accuracy" if you PC and HT the bullets correctly. I also suggest you GC, size and lube conventionally after the PC for best accuracy and to reduce fouling. I ran a comprehensive test of such HT'd and PC'd cast bullets in my own ARs (9 and 12" twist) which is posted on the PC forum some months back.

Larry Gibson

[MGnoob]

i've got a few .223 molds if your interested, they aren't HP but you could have them HPed, i had a hard time getting a mold that worked for me due to everything being out of stock back ordered...i was just trying to get a basic experience before i recieved my casting machine which i wasn't sure would ever show up...
one mold i researched then bought the wrong one on amazon...or they sent me the wrong one, or maybe the picture didn't match the actual mold...which i bought by part number which was not properly listed.......i not sure what happened with that it's a 55gr lyman 2 cavity 225646
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/790...oint-gas-check

i kept it just to try.... it's ok, probably would have got better results seating much deeper than i did.....it's sprue or sprue bolt is lose or damaged or somthing but i have a brand new replacement for each i never installed.



the other one i have is out at ballisticast right now, i am getting an autocast set made of it...it's pretty standard design. works quite well (much better now that i seat deeper aswell) I super overpaid for this one aswell due to availability it's a 60grain saeco #221 4 cavity
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/102...ProductFinding

the saeco mold dropped alot better for me and what ever is wrong with the lyman was cause by agressively trying to get the projectile to drop...it would probibly work alittle better now that i am alittle more experienced...

i been using xterminator powder for both.... coated would probibly work better with x-tac powder since it will weight around 55+ for the lyman and 60+ after being coated.When i coated them i coated them till there was no lubegrooves or gascheck shank....and fired them that way with no gascheck.....

PM me if your interested....i just want to recoup some money rather then let them rust...it's unlikely i'll ever use them again now that i got my casting machine...it's just way easier faster and more consistant.

*edit* i will also just trade you for some brass....800 pounds??is that a typo? hope you have a progressive press..

[MGnoob]

I just went to http://www.hollowpointmold.com/... I haven't look at it for over a year and now i remember, the price!
Very nice stuff though and i see they make HPs for autocast molds.... i would love them even though they don't make them specifically for my machine...they could make...or i could have them do most of it then work the linkage myself...but $50 per cavity and 8 cavities it's the almost price of the molds...

you may be better off getting the entire mold HPed from them..... I'm not really trying to sell/trade my stuff it was just a thought.
If your looking for a 6 cavity mold in .223 with HPs that's got to cost a fortune. You might aswell try out several different .223 projectiles and once you have a good idea of what you want...just order them full custom to your spec.

[fcvan]

I somehow think an HP mold design in an AR would end up with smashed noses during feeding but would be fine in a bolt or single shot. I'm using the Lyman 225-415 in my AR and Mini 14 rifles and I got slight nose deformation during cycling. That got cured when I started powder coating which toughened them up some. They cycle great now yet still mushroom nicely due to the flat nose and the lack of a jacket. Sure is hell on tin cans at 2250 fps. Full cycling and bolt lock-up on the last round using 14 grains of IMR 4227. It does what I want it to do - kill cans!

[OnceFired]

Thanks for the comprehensive replies, everyone!

I am looking for a 6-cav if that's possible. As it is, I can't cast fast enough for my 9mm, and I'll probably end up shooting the rifle more at least in the near term. I haven't ever had my own rifle before, and this will be recreation for me as much as anything else.

Regarding high velocity - is that the defacto "need" for most AR shooters? For me, I do not have a specific application in mind. I purchased it with the intent of using as plinking, light to medium hunting (never been but want to), home defense, etc. My barrel is 8" twist. I sincerely doubt I'd ever be the 'I can push 3000 fps' guy.

I want the HP for over-penetration prevention purposes (I'm in suburbia currently) as well as for smaller game & self defense. I wanted the PC to eliminate all the extraneous hassles for rifle - the GC, the lube, etc if possible. Plus the color effect will be fun on its own.

@TheCelt - how much did the mold + HP conversion run you, total? I'll check that mold out.

@LarryGibson - I will locate that thread and read up on it.

@MGnoob - I appreciate the offer, but I'm after high number of cavities. The 6-cav I have in 9mm isn't enough for me, and I can't afford a casting machine - my wife would probably kill me just for thinking about that. hahahahah Although I *DO* have 800 lbs of brass - no typo there. I bought a GovLiquidation auction for 1,000 lbs and sell it after I clean it. You're right about trying out different molds though. I'll have to sync up with other casters here in the Austin area - maybe swap a few molds temporarily for a little brass?

@fcvan - I think we're on the same page. I don't need to push super high on velocity, and inanimate targets will be my primary prey. I'll look into that mold.

OF

[OnceFired]

Hey all

It's time for me to get into .224 casting. I read up on everything I could find, and am now looking for recommendations based on price ranges.

Ideally what I'd like
.224
62g
hollow point
6-cavity
No lube grooves - meant for dry tumble PC
For AR's, currently 1 in 8 twist

What I have found:
Lee Bator 6-cavity aluminum
Mihec 4-cavity 227-65 solid brass
Accurate Molds (although I confess not knowing enough to properly configure what I want on that site)
HollowPoint Molds

And the pricing for these are:
Lee Bator - $35 + S&H
Mihec - $105 including shipping
Accurate Molds - can't tell, based on not being able to configure the right bullet
HollowPoint Molds - $50 / cavity = $300 on top of the mold

And the trade-offs are:
Lee Bator - not HP, has grooves. After conversion (if even possible) would be a very light bullet.
Mihec - not 6-cav, has grooves.
Accurate Molds - can't tell, based on not being able to configure the right bullet
HollowPoint Molds - exactly what I want, if I can find a mold to modify. Very expensive.

It appears DanR is banned and his Kaine Dies website really doesn't work either, so that isn't a good sign and I don't want to go down that road.

Any other alternatives?

I'm wanting to put this on my Christmas list with my wife, but I need to see a successful path to reaching what I'm looking for.

OF

[popper]

Try NOE. Accurate doesn't do below 30 cal. & no pointy boolits. Very good moulds though. Don't think HP will do what you want for SD, HP 22lr will go through several walls of sheet rock. Small FP 3 or 4 R should do well even for hunting. Feed OK in my 308 & BO ARs.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

OF,
what you're asking sounds about as near impossible as it gets, IMHO.
I think you will only have problems with PC in a AR...but that is just my opinion, I've never tried any PC, let alone in a Gas operated semi-auto.
BUT,
another mold manufacturer you could contact is Hardline.
https://www.hardlineindustries.com/
They are attempting to 'specialize' in PC friendly molds.

I have a HM² mold 225-62 (this is a five cavity), it was designed specifically with the 556 chamber in mind, I could send you some samples, if you like. This mold is currently not being made, but JT may again be making it ??? stay tuned. Now this has lube grooves and is a GC style. The accuracy that the GC offers a cast boolit is quite substantial, IMHO, I wouldn't try to delete it from your thinking.

[OnceFired]

I don't mind the GC at all. I expected I would use that with the PC anyway. Does doing so then require conventional lube?

Is it just the size of the 6-cav that is the issue, and so the molds that are available are only 5-bangers? I'm simply looking for as high of production volume as I can reasonably get. With .224 projectiles at about 1/3 the mass of my 9mm, I would easily go through 3x the amount of lead. Since I was tearing through lead with the 9mm, I figured I needed to get as much production capacity as I could muster.

If I could make the 22 Bator work, I would. But I also made the mistake of not getting an HP mold for 9mm. Now that I'm casting & shooting more, I would prefer the HP for my AR as well.

OF

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You can install a GC whenever you size the boolit, I'd suspect you can install a GC after you PC coat it, if you size it afterward.

6 cav/5 cav:
well, different manufacturers make different sized blocks and that's the reason for different number of cavities.

The Bator:
I will first say, others have disagreed with me... But, I think the Bator is a poor choice for an AR, especially if it has a twist rate faster then 1:9. I think the Bator is just too short and too light for faster twist barrels.